My first upright (info needed!)

[Treybass]

I'm hoping some of you catalog gurus can help me out! I just bought a used Scherl and Roth bass for $900 on Craigslist. Can you tell me more about it?

Serial#: 40 10780
CAT#: R 606 E3

The previous owner said she bought it for over $3000, but I think it's a lie because she also says it's a high end student model.

Anyway, I need to fix the action A LOT because I can fit my thumb under the G string without touching the string my left hand hurts just thinking about how hard it is to play

Thanks a lot for reading!

[Treybass]

bump

[TheSuzie]

Hi,

Congratulations on entering the DB world. Please be patient. There are a lot less people over here than on the BG side. Also a lot of the folks here are gigging professionals who are very busy on the weekends, especially on a holiday weekend. I'm sure you will get some feedback but it may take a few days.

I'm not familiar with any DB luthiers in your area but I'm sure someone here knows. Best to at least consult a pro about the playability issues. A trained eye may see some things in person that we can't see over the net.

S

[Treybass]

Hey,

Sorry, TheSuzie. I'm just used to the thousands of posts per day on the BG side ^__^

I can be patient! I'll keep looking around the interwebs for answers, too!

[standupbassman]

if the action is that high it was most likely set up for a jazz musician. Most jazz bassists have fairly high action because it has a bigger sound and way more attack than a low action bass. My bass teacher says that learning hard to play instruments is really rewarding because it makes everything else seam incredible. Also, you will get the strength to play that bass really quick. Don't worry about the action. But looking at the pics, you might want to look into getting the fingerboard planed so it has a consistant arc. Congrats on getting the bass!

[Treybass]

So, what if I want to play Jazz AND classical? I rechecked the radius, and it's actually fine. I think you're just seeing the bevel for the E string. Pictures can be kinda deceiving, haha.

[TroyK]

I wouldn't say that most jazz bassists like their strings set up high from the fingerboard. Some do, some put them crazy low and amplify hot. There's a right spot for you that should work for whatever you play.

[standupbassman]

If you want to play jazz and classical it's really your decision. The high action will give you a lot more dynamic range but it's harder to play. Personally I would leave the action as it is. You will develop your hand strength faster and it will be amazing to play. You should have a profesional luthier look at it for any problems. Just remember to do research on everyone before you send your bass to them.

[TroyK]

Can't really tell if there are adjusters on your bridge or not. If so, you can drop them yourself to a degree. It's also impossible to tell from these photos about your setup. A first lesson is a good time to have your teacher play the bass and give you suggestions about playability. Luthiers are necessary, but the right setup depends on how you want to play it and you may not quite know yet.

Anything from right off the fingerboard to nearly an inch can be right for you depending on how you want to play, how you want to sound, what kind of strings you want to use, etc.

Playing on a poor setup on with the strings too high to strengthen your hands is not a good plan. Nor is setting them too low because it's easier or more like your bass guitar. I'm afraid you're going to need some non-internet advice to find your sweet spot. Having a bass set up appropriately for both jazz and classical music is not a problem, lots of people do it.

[fdeck]

I agree with TroyK -- my setup seems satisfactory for both classical and jazz, and is not outrageously high.

If the bridge is not presently adjustable, but is otherwise in good condition, a luthier can install the adjusters on it, presumably for less than the cost of a new bridge. This would be a good chance to have your bass looked over for any possible problems, get an insurance appraisal, and form a relationship with a trusted luthier, all of which you will benefit from in the long run.

Looks like the guy in the AC/DC poster is playing an upright.

[Treybass]

Okay, thanks guys!

Maybe I can get some pictures of the string height in the morning

I agree that finger strain is never good. Speed, dexterity, and endurance don't come from finger strength, they come from eliminating as much tension in the fingers as possible.

EDIT: The bridge is not adjustable. Just to let ya guys know, and it's basically in perfect condition.

@fdeck, that's actually this shot of Angus Young:

Kinda looks like an upright in the pic of my bass, though! x]

[Andrew McGregor]

Pictures can't tell the string height: measure it, distance between each string and the FB right at the bridge end of the FB, in millimeters.

Also knowing what sort of strings they are (post the silk colours at each end in the strings forum if you don't know) will help know if the measurements make sense; some strings need more clearance.

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by Treybass

@fdeck, that's actually this shot of Angus Young:

Cool. I saw them in '82 or '83.

[Phil Rowan]

On Bob Gollihur's site there's a good luthier directory you can use to find one in your area.

[barbarbass]

Originally Posted by Treybass

So, what if I want to play Jazz AND classical? I rechecked the radius, and it's actually fine. I think you're just seeing the bevel for the E string. Pictures can be kinda deceiving, haha.

Exactly, Treybass. If you want to bow that thing, you will want that radius probably about the way it is now.

[Treybass]

Okay, I measured the space between the fingerboard and the strings. This is what I have:

E: 10mm (keep in mind there is a bevel for the E string)
A: 10mm
D: 14mm
G: 15mm

Is that some crazy inconsistent action, or am I just a noob?

EDIT: Also, the strings are clearly flatwounds. I dunno if they're steel or nickel, but the tension is tight. The silk at the bridge end are a dark green. The silk at the nut end actually vary from string to string.

These are the silk colors at the nut end by string:
E: Dark green
A: Black I think. It might be purple.
D: Golden brown
G: a pinky red

Here's a pic of the silk at the nut end just so you can see. On the top you see the E and D string. On the bottom you can see the A and G string.

E and D:

A and G

[fdeck]

That seems like an odd setup. Most setups have the E string higher than the G by 2+ mm.

It's conceivable that the bridge got flipped around. Re-flipping it yourself involves danger that the soundpost might fall, or that the fit is poor in the other orientation, which wouldn't be good for the bass. For this reason, I'd trust this to a luthier. Chances are you got a good deal on a decent bass that's worth a few more dollars to assure yourself of its longevity. Plus, having a "mainstream" setup will probably aid your progress towards developing good technique.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by standupbassman

if the action is that high it was most likely set up for a jazz musician. Most jazz bassists have fairly high action because it has a bigger sound and way more attack than a low action bass. My bass teacher says that learning hard to play instruments is really rewarding because it makes everything else seam incredible. Also, you will get the strength to play that bass really quick. Don't worry about the action. But looking at the pics, you might want to look into getting the fingerboard planed so it has a consistant arc. Congrats on getting the bass!

Sorry, but this is not necessarily true. Many jazz bassists have fairly low, comfortable string heights. I know many people with repetitive stress injuries due to high strings and hard to play basses. You don't want that! With steel wrapped strings it is possible to have lower string heights that will work in the classical setting, too. My heights are 4.7mm-8mm. IMO it makes no sense to kill yourself trying to make music, especially as a beginner!

FDeck is right. The strings should be higher to lower E-G. An E string needs more clearance than a G.

[eerbrev]

Originally Posted by Treybass

Okay, I measured the space between the fingerboard and the strings. This is what I have:

E: 10mm (keep in mind there is a bevel for the E string)
A: 10mm
D: 14mm
G: 15mm

Is that some crazy inconsistent action, or am I just a noob?

EDIT: Also, the strings are clearly flatwounds. I dunno if they're steel or nickel, but the tension is tight. The silk at the bridge end are a dark green. The silk at the nut end actually vary from string to string.

These are the silk colors at the nut end by string:
E: Dark green
A: Black I think. It might be purple.
D: Golden brown
G: a pinky red

Hey Treybass,

Yeah, I'd say your action is pretty whack. I'd go with the suggestion of these fine folks and take your bass to a luthier to get the bridge set up, and even just to give 'er a structural once over.

regarding the strings, most steel upright strings are flatwounds. the biggest reason for this that they don't chew into the fingerboard like roundwounds do (the same reason i have them on my fretless electric). There's also a tonal difference, but that is more of a personal preference than anything else. The good news is that the string tension will improve if you get your bridge looked after and lower the action (especially on the D and G. I read somewhere, i think in Chuck Traeger's book, that he set the G up at around 6mm, but once again, personal preference comes in).

as to what kind of strings they are? The only green wrapped strings I know of are the evah parazzi's, but I'm no expert. Perhaps one of our string experts can be of assistance?

regards,

Alex

[wdnewman]

Sounds to me like you have Evah Parazzi Regulars on the bass. Very good strings for a low end bass. The string height, especially on the G side is way, way high. Get 'er to the doctor, and you will enjoy playing a whole lot more!