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Basses [DB] Discussion on the instrument: double bass, string bass, contrabass, bass viol, acoustic bass, upright bass, standup bass, bass fiddle, bass violin, doghouse bass, bull fiddle... :)


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  #1  
Old 05-30-2008, 11:58 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
My wife's old DB. It's a ....?

Hi all,

I'm a first time poster from Auckland New Zealand. While I'm mainly a 6 string guitarist, I've got an old Fender Jazz bass I play at church most Sundays. So I guess I'm a Sunday bass player.

Anyway, my wife has always loved the double bass and a few years back I bought her one that had come from a high school down the line. It was pretty bad - neck broken off, no tailpiece etc. But it looked like a solid instrument, and had a label inside saying adjusted in 1915 in Auckland NZ.

Anyhow, I got it put back together and surprised my wife with it. She loves it, we both do.

We'd both be pretty keen to know if anyone can identify a maker. I've included links to some pics. If there's any particular shots that would be helpful let me know.

Thanks a lot,
John Chapman.




More Photos:

www.clevedonpresy.co.nz/Legacy/john/DB/Bass5.jpg
www.clevedonpresy.co.nz/Legacy/john/DB/Bass9.jpg
www.clevedonpresy.co.nz/Legacy/john/DB/Bass2.jpg
www.clevedonpresy.co.nz/Legacy/john/DB/Bass3.jpg
www.clevedonpresy.co.nz/Legacy/john/DB/Bass4.jpg
www.clevedonpresy.co.nz/Legacy/john/DB/Bass6.jpg
www.clevedonpresy.co.nz/Legacy/john/DB/Bass7.jpg
http://www.clevedonpresy.co.nz/Legac.../DB/Bass10.jpg
http://www.clevedonpresy.co.nz/Legac.../DB/Bass11.jpg
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Last edited by BazzJass : 05-31-2008 at 11:12 PM.
  #2  
Old 05-31-2008, 12:19 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Nice bass! Looks German to me (lots of details are VERY similar to mine, which definitely is German), but I'm hardly the expert on IDing basses. Hopefully one of them will be along before too long with some real knowledge.
  #3  
Old 05-31-2008, 01:47 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Hi Andrew,

I bought this bass from a guy in Christchurch 4 years ago, in two pieces!

You may remember the Trade Me listing if you were a Trade Me watcher back then

John.
  #4  
Old 05-31-2008, 03:21 AM
dave88's Avatar
used to play 5's, then I took an arrow in the knee
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Supporting Member
Def got that Czech / German late 19th early 20th century thing goin on. In all honesty, you probably won't be able to identify the maker unless there is some inscription or label that you somehow overlooked. In fact, it doesn't really matter who made it, its a beautiful bass. That upper bout is huge, what are the measurements?
  #5  
Old 05-31-2008, 04:37 AM
Banned

Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Perkasie, PA USA
Cool 1915 in Auckland NZ?

Humm.. Is everything on that Bass original as far as you know including the Varnish?

A maker from London by the name of John Devereux moved to Melbourne Australia in 1854 and he sort of founded the Australian School of Bass/Violin making. The English made both Italian and German looking Basses. Your Bass resembles Basses I have seen made in the north or England by James Cloe but without the outer Rib Linings/moldings. It also looks like a German type Bass from the Markneukirchen area made in the early 20th century. Cole would date in the latter 19th century. It is not out of the question that your Bass was made locally. It is very possible.

Regardless, it looks like a well made Bass. Do you think that '1915 in Auckland NZ' has something to do with the making of the Bass or maybe just a local dealer or shop's label?

Please get us all the standard measurements. The Ribs do not include the top and back, just inside them only. Lower and upper bouts at the widest and center at the narrowest width. The Top from end to end in length, the Back from bottom to over the neck button and the vibrating string length with the bridge centered between the notches.

The Gears are German and match the date of 1915 give or take as I have seen these on many Basses. Often they were replacing older gears and sometimes when converted to 4-string from 3. This looks like a Germanic style 4-sting Bass made in the period marked but that doesn't mean it's German. That Loop in the Back is usually connected like this on here;


Here is the Back shot of an early 20th century German Bass;


It is also a fairly large Bass. Here are its measurements to compare;
Upper Bout: 20 3/4"
Center Bout: 15"
Bottom Bout: 26 7/8"
String Length: 42 3/8" (after Block Cut)
Belly Length: 44 1/4" (After block cut)
Rib Depth: 8" (Upper Bout tapers from 8" to 6 1/4")

Also, here's the Scroll of an old Italian Bass of mine with similar gears to yours. My gears seem older and slightly different but definitely similar in make and style. This was a 3-string and was converted to 4 within the last 100 years or less;


Gears and/or shape alone do not identify a Bass, especially the Gears.

http://members.aol.com/violinmakers/violinmakers.html (35 makers listed from New Zealand and 308 in Australia. http://www.abcviolins.com/ozmakers.html

Last edited by KSB - Ken Smith : 05-31-2008 at 04:45 AM.
  #6  
Old 05-31-2008, 05:03 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Syracuse N.Y.
The grain of the spruce top in the f hole picture looks beautiful; The growth rings are very tight and straight.

It would be very difficult to find lumber like this in todays world. Nice Bass!
  #7  
Old 05-31-2008, 05:20 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Hi Ken,

Thanks for the info to date. I'll get some measurements tomorrow. Is a flexible tape measure the way to go (i.e. lay the tape measure over the instrument so that the tape measure follows the curvature of the top/back)?

As far as originality goes, it came to me as a body and neck with tuners. It had the floor peg but no bridge, sound post, tailpiece or strings. So all these things were added (old used parts) when the bass was put back together. The bass didn't cost me a lot to buy and I didn't spend a huge amount putting it back together. There was some "over finishing" with lacquer in places, but the original wasn't stripped.

Further to the label inside: the chap who "adjusted" it was James Hewitt of Auckland. His grandson is still in business and it was he who put the bass back together. He noted the quality of the bass, but confirmed it wasn't built by James Hewitt.

Regarding the loop on the top of the back: if you look at picture 10 above, you'll see that the whole top of the loop on my bass has been replaced. When I got the bass there was a chunck missing where the neck had broken away. So when they repaired it they made a new top piece here and continued what was left of the loop to tidy it up. It's possible that the top of the loop originally looked like the photo you posted Ken. It would make more sense than how it looks on my bass after the repair.

Anyway, measurements to follow tomorrow.

John.
  #8  
Old 05-31-2008, 03:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Measurements:

I'm not sure that I've done this right, but here's what I got with a flacid tape measure lying across the bass.

Upper bout: 20 3/4" (measured on back of bass)
Lower bout: 25 1/2"
Waist: 14 11/16"
Front length (from neck block under fingerboard to bottom, not including floor post): 41 1/2"
Back (including neck button): 43 7/8"
Fingerboard length (excluding nut): 33 1/2"
Vibrating string length (between nut and bridge) 42"
Rib: 7 7/8" tapers to 6 1/8" where neck joins.

Hope that helps,
John.
  #9  
Old 05-31-2008, 05:29 PM
Banned

Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Perkasie, PA USA
Cool to measure..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BazzJass View Post
Measurements:

I'm not sure that I've done this right, but here's what I got with a flacid tape measure lying across the bass.

Upper bout: 20 3/4" (measured on back of bass)
Lower bout: 25 1/2"
Waist: 14 11/16"
Front length (from neck block under fingerboard to bottom, not including floor post): 41 1/2"
Back (including neck button): 43 7/8"
Fingerboard length (excluding nut): 33 1/2"
Vibrating string length (between nut and bridge) 42"
Rib: 7 7/8" tapers to 6 1/8" where neck joins.

Hope that helps,
John.
Measure from the Top, not the Back across the widths. On the length of the Top it is the total length of the piece of Spruce from under the Tailpiece to the tips hugging the Neck, not under it. This is the length of wood used to make the Top regardless of the vibrating part. The Back is bottom to over the button. The Back and Top will not be the same in length and because of arch and nature of design the bouts can vary as well. The tape measure is fine. We all use it.

Either way, it looks to be a full 3/4 sized bass or small 7/8 by todays standards but not made then as a full sized bass. The One I posted was a full sized in its day. Today they have more fractions for the schools so the call it a 7/8th. Playing that Bass it felt nothing short of a full 4/4 bass.
  #10  
Old 05-31-2008, 10:59 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Okay,

Top length is 42 3/8" and upper bout measured on top is 21".

I've always assumed it's a 3/4 size bass, this is the size I intended to buy at the time.

Thanks again,
John.
  #11  
Old 06-01-2008, 08:04 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Upstate, SC
Guy you should look up.

Hi-

My best friend, who is EXTREMELY knowledgable about great basses, is the new principal bass of the Auckland Philharmonic. His name is John Harrison and he plays a wonderful old english bass. If anyone in the area could help you with it, it would be him. Look him up and tell him I sent you.

BG
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