Mysto 3 string

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Ah, Arnold?.. we need a kinda +2 here. Would you please in your expert opinion tell us what the Job I was referring to the Bassbar is supposed to do. I seem to make suggestions up here and often my words are taken with a grain of salt rather than with a Ton of Bricks which is 'usually' the better way to go...

Sure, here goes: Put four steel strings on a bass with a top and bass bar built for three gut strings (which have lower tension than steel) and you are asking for trouble. This is especially true where the bass bar does not cross the grains of the top wood. Splits and/or collapsing around the bass bar are pretty inevitable, unless the entire top is thick and high-arched. After all, you are nearly doubling the pressure on the top.

[Benton]

I enoy the picvyures and seeing the progress. I think FredH is learning and enjoying the progress and hopefully he comes out with a bass worth playing. I'll be keeping up with the progress .
Peace
Benton

[FredH]

After all, you are nearly doubling the pressure on the top

Food for thought, I'll talk to Dave about. Thanks for the input.

[MarkRubin]

Personally, I think you're nuts to take a perfectly good 3 string bass and muck it up by putting another string on it. I gave up the E string years ago myself and don't miss it one bit. I couldn't find a proper "tryclops," so I had a Romanian maker custom make me one in a 5/8th scale. Sounds as big as a 4/4 actually. Takes up less room in the truck to boot.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by MarkRubin

Personally, I think you're nuts to take a perfectly good 3 string bass and muck it up by putting another string on it. I gave up the E string years ago myself and don't miss it one bit. I couldn't find a proper "tryclops," so I had a Romanian maker custom make me one in a 5/8th scale. Sounds as big as a 4/4 actually. Takes up less room in the truck to boot.

Well, so many old 3-strings were converted to 4-strings in the 19th century and then they had C extensions added to go even lower. How will you play Beethoven's 5th properly with only 3-strings? There is a reason why it is called a Double Bass! The Cello goes down to C so many composers in the last 200 years have been writing down there for the Bass. Heck, most european Orchestras have 5-string Basses as well as many in the rest of the world. The 3-string is way way limited in todays music as well as yesterdays.

[jallenbass]

Judging from Mark's profile he ain't playing Beethoven anytime soon...

[JeffKissell]

Ken,
If one were to restore an original mini cooper would it be it be appropriate to put a V8 in it? Why not let the bass be what it is. It's not like there is a shortage of four string basses in the world.
Good luck on the restoration, Fred...however many strings it ends up with.

-JK

[SteveA]

Ken with regards your comment on how would you play Beethoven 5 on a 3 string.

My understanding is that 3 string players would have just tuned down to the low C (and the other strings would have also been de tuned) (Simandel in one of the later books mentions this). and an old buddy of mine who had done some research seemed to be of the opinion that the 3 string bassists often useed diffrent tunings depending on the work they were playing, seems the art of transpositon was a big part of being a bass player in the old days...

[Alexi David]

A 3 string with..............an "E" extension! Voila!

[jmpiwonka]

i think ken is talking more about the functionality or the easiest/most logical way to do something. if playing beethoven's fifth were a concern then yeah make it a four (or even five) stringer. sure the piece could be played on three strings by tuning down and in fifths or whatever the combination may be, but it really makes sense to have the extra string and spare yourself the transposing and other hindrances that may exist.

if it were me, i would be more concerned about resale value and getting the most for my dollar. if you have it restored as a three string not many buyers will be interested. if you make it a three string and decide "damn i really miss tuning in fourths and having that E string" then you have just spent a ****load of money on something you are not happy with......but if you get real lucky you might find a buyer interested in it and make back some of your bucks.

for me this would not even be a question, four strings it is. you can do so much more with the bass as a four stringer.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by SteveA

Ken with regards your comment on how would you play Beethoven 5 on a 3 string.

My understanding is that 3 string players would have just tuned down to the low C (and the other strings would have also been de tuned) (Simandel in one of the later books mentions this). and an old buddy of mine who had done some research seemed to be of the opinion that the 3 string bassists often useed diffrent tunings depending on the work they were playing, seems the art of transpositon was a big part of being a bass player in the old days...

Remember, the 3-string was used mostly in England, France and Italy. Germany and Austria were 4 and 5 string in the 19th century. The 5th flirts up into the Thumb position as well. 4-strings with an Extension is the least you can use to play it with all the written notes and a chance to play it in tune. Tuning down a 3-string is not an option from how I see it. If you have played the 5th, and not just an excerpt, but the entire Symphony then you know what I am talking about.

This thread BTW is about converting a 3 to a 4 and spending alot of money to actually do it right. A good restoration should be done only once in a Players lifetime. Doing any less than a full restoration is not going to help it's resale value.

[MarkRubin]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Remember, the 3-string was used mostly in England, France and Italy. Germany and Austria were 4 and 5 string in the 19th century.

Well maybe so. I'm more concerned with the present tense myself.

It might interest you to know that folks play 3 string right now all over the Trans-Carpathians, up into the Tatras region of Poland and as far east as Bukovina and Moldova. Locally, I've run into them in Bohemian and Moravian string bands around Houston and even in Northern Mexican cantina conjuntos. Great players, getting great sound, playing great music, completely unhindered by the inability to play dead German music properly on thier axe.

This all reminds me of the cat locally who butchered out a cutaway in his fine Italian bass so he could play up there where nobody wants to hear a bass played in the first place. Or cats who spens big bucks in restoration to make a bass "left-handed." I like to stick with the instrument makers intent. Right tool for the right job and all that rot.

Transposition rocks BTW. I use a C tuning in 5ths, or an A tuning in 4th depending on the gig. After a while you hardly notice the fingering diffs. Your brain unhooks and you start playing music rather than notes.

PS: what's a thumb position;-)

"Ain't no money past 2nd position" - any of my employers