NBD: EH Roth 3/4

[shrigg]

Just got home with this EH Roth hybrid. It sounds great and plays easily with action height at the fingerboard end of 2.75mm (G) to 4.75mm (E). It came strung with Spirocore Weichs which is a happy coincidence: I was searching the classifieds for the last few days for a set because I figured it would have something else on it. There is a headstock repair, an extra hole near the endpin and a crude but functional tailpiece wire fashioned from electrical wire. This is my first upright and I think I found a good one!

[Mike Goodbar]

Nice find! I use a Roth hybrid as my studio bass at the university where I teach. That thing can holler!

If you can swing it, I would recommend replacing the entire endpin assembly for something a bit more substantial. For some reason, Roth put that flimsy l'il deal on it (blew their budget on red varnish, apparently).

That, plus have a good luthier check the setup out...those bridge feet should be perfectly flush with the top of the bass.

[StoBro]

That extra hole in front of the endpin is where the plug should be that the tailgut attaches to. Roths have separate pins for the tailgut and the endpin. At least mine did.

[Steve Boisen]

Nice find! I have a fully carved E.H. Roth bass from 1960 and I have done a little research on the company and their basses.

You can read about them here and here. The US based company Scherl & Roth was founded by Ernst Heinrich Roth II (I have a letter signed by him that came with my bass) and they imported instruments for the student market. The E.H. Roth labelled instruments were the top of their line and violins built in E.H. Roth's original workshop are somewhat coveted. Some are of the opinion that Roth's basses were made for them by another German shop like Wilfer or Hofner who specialized in double basses, but the company's website says that they make all of their own instruments in Bubenreuth.

As others have pointed out, the bridge on your bass needs some attention and the button for the tailpiece wire has been removed (my bass does not have a separate button). A trip to a qualified bass luthier is in order. I recently replaced the original flimsy endpin on my bass with a Onyx model from Lemur Music and I can recommend this upgrade, along with a stranded steel tailpiece wire. The string height you posted sound very low. This might make it a breeze to play, but you will get more sound if you raise it a bit. Since you have adjusters you can always experiment until you find the right balance between playability and comfort.

Congrats, and best of luck with your new bass!

- Steve

[shrigg]

Originally Posted by StoBro

That extra hole in front of the endpin is where the plug should be that the tailgut attaches to. Roths have separate pins for the tailgut and the endpin. At least mine did.

I'm glad it's not an "extra" hole as I first thought. Cool, another thing for the luthier to do. Guess he can make an appropriate plug. Any chance someone could take a close up photo of their plug?

[kscbass]

Originally Posted by Steve Boisen

Nice find! I have a fully carved E.H. Roth bass from 1960 and I have done a little research on the company and their basses.

You can read about them here and here. The US based company Scherl & Roth was founded by Ernst Heinrich Roth II (I have a letter signed by him that came with my bass) and they imported instruments for the student market. The E.H. Roth labelled instruments were the top of their line and violins built in E.H. Roth's original workshop are somewhat coveted. Some are of the opinion that Roth's basses were made for them by another German shop like Wilfer or Hofner who specialized in double basses, but the company's website says that they make all of their own instruments in Bubenreuth.

As others have pointed out, the bridge on your bass needs some attention and the button for the tailpiece wire has been removed (my bass does not have a separate button). A trip to a qualified bass luthier is in order. I recently replaced the original flimsy endpin on my bass with a Onyx model from Lemur Music and I can recommend this upgrade, along with a stranded steel tailpiece wire. The string height you posted sound very low. This might make it a breeze to play, but you will get more sound if you raise it a bit. Since you have adjusters you can always experiment until you find the right balance between playability and comfort.

Congrats, and best of luck with your new bass!

- Steve

+1 on everything Steve said. Get that hole plugged etc etc...
I have a 1963 Carved Roth, and I also have the plugged hole right by the endpin, I'll get a pic tomorrow. I have spiro weichs on it, after playing Mittels for a few months I realized they were choking the bass. With weichs the bass is louder, clearer and has more sustain.

[shrigg]

Thanks guys, what excellent information!

[fdeck]

Congrats!

In my view a copper tail wire is enough of an "unknown" that it would be risky to trust it for the long term. Getting a proper wire installed won't break the bank, and would be a chance for a luthier to look things over and walk you through raising the bridge a skosh. Something in the ballpark of 5 mm on the G will probably get you to where the bass is producing most of the sound that it's capable of, without being too uncomfortable to play.

Such a bass is worth bringing up to its best possible tone and playability!

[shrigg]

Originally Posted by fdeck

Congrats!

In my view a copper tail wire is enough of an "unknown" that it would be risky to trust it for the long term. Getting a proper wire installed won't break the bank, and would be a chance for a luthier to look things over and walk you through raising the bridge a skosh. Something in the ballpark of 5 mm on the G will probably get you to where the bass is producing most of the sound that it's capable of, without being too uncomfortable to play.

Such a bass is worth bringing up to its best possible tone and playability!

Yes indeed, I am making a to-do list for when I take it to my luthier. Again, I am very grateful for all the insights shared!
This is the first quality double bass I've ever played let alone *owned* ...so I am definitely in full, eyes-wide-open learning mode!

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

That bass looks familiar. Did you get it from an eBay auction?

[shrigg]

I bought it in person from a boutique guitar amp maker in Michigan. He had bought it from someone who purchased it from a High School in the Chicago area along with some plywood Scherl & Roth 1/2 size models.

[Steve Boisen]

With the plethora of URB newbies who buy cheap Chinese basses and seek approval here, it's actually quite refreshing to see someone obtain a quality instrument who is open to advice and plans to take it to a luthier. I'm sure this instrument will provide many years of enjoyment.

By the way, the "N49" scratched on the button by the neck heel indicates that this instrument was part of public school's inventory which is were many Roth hybrid basses found their home. It may have had a rough life up until now.

- Steve

[Mike Arnopol]

you guys don't want to know what a great deal it was!

[shrigg]

Originally Posted by Steve Boisen

it's actually quite refreshing to see someone obtain a quality instrument who is open to advice and plans to take it to a luthier. I'm sure this instrument will provide many years of enjoyment.

I just want to give this instrument the respect it deserves. I pulled it out of a wood-heated workshop so I'm busily humidifying it now. I have a luthier appointment Friday to get the bridge and tailpiece wire sorted out and a setup. We'll see what can be done about the missing bridge pin... I'm hoping to find a photo to refer to if we need to turn something out.

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

you guys don't want to know what a great deal it was!

It was a great deal indeed!

[mjac28]

Wow nice I really want one

[Steve Boisen]

Originally Posted by shrigg

We'll see what can be done about the missing bridge pin... I'm hoping to find a photo to refer to if we need to turn something out.

Here's a a thought on that: if you have a better endpin installed it will have a groove to accommodate the tailpiece wire, making the separate button unnecessary. It might make more sense to go this route and have the extra hole filled and finished flush with the ribs rather than trying to reproduce the original button. Your luthier, if he knows double basses, can probably advise you on this.

- Steve

[shrigg]

Originally Posted by Steve Boisen

Here's a a thought on that: if you have a better endpin installed it will have a groove to accommodate the tailpiece wire, making the separate button unnecessary. It might make more sense to go this route and have the extra hole filled and finished flush with the ribs rather than trying to reproduce the original button. Your luthier, if he knows double basses, can probably advise you on this.

I may tackle the endpin later as I'm financially tender at the moment... We will see.

[shrigg]

Now I need to get an inexpensive German bow. I'm looking for a used Gollihur, Upton or Lemur. Anyone have one they'd part with, or other quality starter suggestions?

[Steve Boisen]

I have a Gollihur German bow and I think it's a good bow for bow for the price. I think they are a little nicer than the inexpensive Upton bow.

- Steve

[shrigg]

Thanks Steve. I gave Mr. Gollihur my business and ordered a new brazilwood German bow with a couple types of rosin ...and a K&K Bassmax while I was at it.