Need advice on buying my first bass

[Millah]

Hey everyone.

I'm new here and im new to Double basses. i really dont know much about them at all. Im going to buy one soon off the internet and im going to be playing mostly jazz/hiphop. i make my own music and bassicly will be using the bass for basslines etc and might start playing in gigs etc after i get good.

i need advice on what kind og double bass to get. As i said il be playing mostly jazz and underground hiphop vibe stuff.

and help on what kinda timber and size etc i should be looking for would be a great help.

Thanks alot everyone.

Peace

[TroyK]

This one would be perfect for you. Good luck.

If my answer is lacking in any way, you might try searcing in the basses forum. This comes up a lot and I'm sure you'll find answers at least as good as mine if not better.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Millah

Hey everyone.

I'm new here and im new to Double basses. i really dont know much about them at all. Im going to buy one soon off the internet and im going to be playing mostly jazz/hiphop. i make my own music and bassicly will be using the bass for basslines etc and might start playing in gigs etc after i get good.

i need advice on what kind og double bass to get. As i said il be playing mostly jazz and underground hiphop vibe stuff.

and help on what kinda timber and size etc i should be looking for would be a great help.

Thanks alot everyone.

Peace

Please fill out your profile completely then read the newbie links regarding buying a bass. If you buy some BSO (bass-shaped object) via the internet from a guitar shop, you will be wasting your money. Not only will it fight you all the way, but it will have a substantial liklihood of imploding into a pile of kindling wood. There are reputable shops from which to buy. Just look at the ad at the top of the page. Upton is one fine example of a REAL bass shop that sells via the internet.

What is your budget? You should allot a MINIMUM of $1500 for the purchase. One way or another, you'll pay that. For example, if you bought some cheapo $500 BSO on eBay, you'd spend another $300 or so getting it set up properly. You'd then have an $800 investment in a poor-sounding, poor-playing instrument that would not hold its value and that might very well disintegrate in your hands.

This should really have been posted under "Basses."

Forewarned is forearmed.

[Millah]

Thanks for the replys guys.
I was looking at something like this
http://www.thomann.de/ie/thomann_kontrabass_2_m_4_4.htm

But then again i dont really know.

thanks again guys. great help

[TroyK]

Now I feel bad. I was being a wize ass and you were nice about it. So, let me make up for it.

First of all, kidding aside, do a little searching in the basses forum, click on "search" up and to the right, go to advanced search, limit your search to the double bass side of talk bass and look for things like "first bass" "ebay", "internet" etc and you'll learn a lot.

Second, it will really be helpful to us if you complete your profile. It looks like, for example, that you are European and you've already been referred to a US store and been quoted US prices. We can help you better if we know where you are and other things about you. We're a good community, welcome.

Finally, on the bass you're looking at. It looks nice, I can't really tell anything about it from that picture and am not familar with the brand. However, it is a 4/4 bass which is generally considered too big for almost everyone. 3/4 is the standard size. There are two sizes smaller and two larger. Unless you've got some special needs, you're going to want a 3/4 bass.

It's not an easy purchuse. Take your time and make a good, informed choice.

Troy

[mcnaire2004]

I'll sell you my 7/8 Juzek (Jazz Power house) for 35 grand.

[Millah]

Haha thanks TroyK no need to feel bad, its all good.
Thanks for telling me about the 4/4 and 3/4 i had no idea about that. il start searching other topics and wreck my head with info.

thanks for all the help again.
peace

[TroyK]

I don't know the history of the sizing, it's odd that 3/4 is really "full sized", but it is. 90%+ of the basses you see out there are 3/4 basses.

1/2 and 5/8s are smaller and usually, but not always for women, children or people who want smaller basses for some reason.

7/8's and 4/4 are larger. People play 7/8s basses, but hardly anyone plays 4/4 basses, especially for what you are describing.

However, that's a generalization and might even have some facts wrong. THere are people here who would know better than me. Most people never look past 3/4 basses. The main, relevant difference is the string length (Mensure). You'll spend a lot of time learning how to find the notes and play them in tune, with no frets or markers. The notes logically are farther apart on larger basses and closer together on smaller basses. However, basses, especially older ones are artists creations and some larger bodied basses will have longer mensures and some smaller basses have longer mensures. Dave Holland plays a small bass and of course sounds...welll he's Dave Holland. Search on "mensure".

There are also WAY more important things. Brand and construction matter, but set up matters at least as much and if it's not right, it can be every expensive to fit. A good luthier will spend a lot of time, shaping the bridge feet to exactly fit to the top, where there are held only by string pressure. If they don't fit perfectly, a good bass will sound bad. Same with this little post on the inside that you would never notice if you weren't looking for it. It is simply tensioned between the top and the back by the string length and both ends are expertly shaped to the piece of wood they rest on. If it is too long, too short or in the wrong spot, the bass doesn't sound good. If you loosen all of the strings, it will fall and you won't get it back in place. Search on "soundpost", "bass bar" and "set up".

For those reasons, most people would advize against purchasing on-line, but their are some good companies to do so from. I'm not familiar with the UK ones, but we've got a good UK membership here who can probably help you. You'll need someone, though to help you service and adjust this thing, so it's better if you can to buy from someone you can meet and buy a bass that you can play or hear someone else play. Even if you have to drive or take a train to get to it. If you order one, you'll need to find a local luthier to support it. They are very unstable and need adjustment from time to time.

I think that your climate is likely a good one for wooden instruments, though. Similar to mine, I believe.

Good luck, welcome, let us know after you've looked more closely what questions you have. You probably want to post in the basses forum, though. People sometimes only look at the forums that they are interested or experts in. Since I'm not an expert in anything, I just pop around giving half-baked advice willy-nilly. (or is it "helter skelter" for you?"

[theshadow2001]

As a fellow Irish man who's done a good bit of research into this I feel I should offer some info on the topic. The bass your looking at from thomann is a Strunal. They are meant to be respectable low end basses. (In that they won't fall apart after a while) As for the sound quality of them I can't tell you what thats like. The guys over on www.rockabillybass.com seem to like them enough. (do a search on strunal and thomann)

On the strunal website (www.stunral.cz) they list this guy:

JOHN CUMISKEY & SONS LTD.
51, GREEN ROAD NEWRY Co. DOWN

BESSBROOK
IRELAND
T: 0035-3429334174
F: 0035-3429338275

and this guy:

THE HOUSE OF MUSIC LTD.
40 NORTH STREET SKIBBEREEN

CO. CORK
IRELAND
T: 00353-2823504
F: 00353-2823503

as a supplier for their instruments. If your set on one of those basses or something similar from thomann you might give these guys a call although I haven't talked to them personally I doubt they would have one in stock but they could probably order one in for you. It's worth a shot and won't mean you have to go abroad, or order on-line.

Another thing is if you get one of those instruments they will have a factory set-up. Which means they need to be fine tuned more. Which means finding a luthier here that will do double-bass. I don't know how well any luthiers you'll find here are able to set up these instruments since most of them do violins and other such smaller instruments. Plus I'm sure any double bass work they get is extremely few and far between so it's not like they would be in practice Apparantly guys in the RTE orchestra go to england to get their basses set up. I don't know how true that is but you never know. On the other hand they don't have a €1500 thomann bass they proabably have something worth ten times the value of the car they drive it round in. (No exageration)

A good alternative and probably a better bass are the ones that bob gollihur is selling. www.urbbob.com he sends basses all over the world. I've aproximated the cost of getting one of these basses and it works out around €2500 including delivery tax import duty and other such costs that crop up. Again thats aproximate value it could be more it could be less but it's most likely not accurate. Again these would need a setup which brings us back to the luthier problem.

Another option would be to visit england and if you can find decent bass there. Drive over their and back on the ferry to pick up the bass.

Either way if you just want something to fool around on the thomann bass is probably fine. It'll probably be tough to play without a decent setup. Also apparantly improper technique can cause injury and what not so thats another thing to be wary of. If you want to take the instrument up seriously it's going to take a lot of effort just to find a bass alone and keep it maintained.

Originally Posted by TroyK

For those reasons, most people would advize against purchasing on-line, but their are some good companies to do so from. I'm not familiar with the UK ones, but we've got a good UK membership here who can probably help you. You'll need someone, though to help you service and adjust this thing, so it's better if you can to buy from someone you can meet and buy a bass that you can play or hear someone else play. Even if you have to drive or take a train to get to it. If you order one, you'll need to find a local luthier to support it. They are very unstable and need adjustment from time to time.

What you probably don't understand troy is that there really isn't somewhere here that you can buy a bass face to face. If threr is where ever that place is it's hard to find. The only one I've ever seen was a piece of crap going for about €600 (you could take that as $600) I believe anyone here with a decent instrument has bought them on the continent. All this means the only real alternative is an internet shop that will deliver internationally.

So if you think getting a bass here is hard enough try being left handed

[Tony F]

Does Upton ship internationally?

The Upton ply basses have a superb reputation for quality, playability, and outstanding setup before they're shipped. With the exchange rate being the way it is at the moment, the bass would cost you about 1400 euros, plus shipping - of which Upton pays the first $150 anyway! (correct me if I'm wrong guys)

I've seen dozens of people posting with their experiences of the Upton basses, and there's not been one bad word said about them.

Let us know how you get on!

Cheers,

Tony

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Tony F

Does Upton ship internationally?

The Upton ply basses have a superb reputation for quality, playability, and outstanding setup before they're shipped. With the exchange rate being the way it is at the moment, the bass would cost you about 1400 euros, plus shipping - of which Upton pays the first $150 anyway! (correct me if I'm wrong guys)

I've seen dozens of people posting with their experiences of the Upton basses, and there's not been one bad word said about them.

Let us know how you get on!

Cheers,

Tony

+1! If you're buying international anyway, you won't do better than Upton.

[theshadow2001]

Yes it seems upton deliver internationally which is definitely another alternative. Im basing that on the fact that you can select a country when you go to check out on the online shop. This would represent a cheap enough alternative that would include a setup bass.

In terms of finding gear and hearing about different pieces of equipment it's shame (for me anyways) that due to the American majority you mostly hear about stuff more easily available over there which is great of course for everybody else. Im sure there's guys in the EU doing the exact same thing as Upton but would prove easier to buy and would involve less hassle. (shipping import duty customs transatlantic flights) The trouble is of course finding them.

[Tony F]

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

In terms of finding gear and hearing about different pieces of equipment it's shame (for me anyways) that due to the American majority you mostly hear about stuff more easily available over there which is great of course for everybody else.

Well yes, I do sympathise - I played bass for 20 years in England, since moving to the US I'm amazed at the number of basses available over here. Many of them not worth having, of course, but it's good to have a choice. I don't know what I'd have done if I needed a new bass while in the UK - it seems that a big pile of cash is needed.

The import duty / tax thing is bad, I admit. It should still be weighed against the fact that the bass would be arriving at your door completely set up to your specifications, and ready to gig that night. Importing a bass from an EU country might well save some money initially, but probably wouldn't be playable straight out of the box (the big clue is seeing the bridge in a little plastic bag taped to the side of the bass )... and if Irish bass players really are driving their basses onto the ferry to England in search of a good luthier, then you're spending way more than the extra import duty would ever cost. Never underestimate the importance of a good setup - it will make the bass louder, sing sweeter, make it massively easier to play, and reduce the wear and tear on your fingertips, joints and nerve endings. "Some assemby required" is best saved for cheap bookcases!

I'm not trying to push you toward one bass supplier (well, I suppose I am, a bit) but I do believe that if I were in your position I'd go with the Upton. I'm in the market for a new bass right now, and that's where my money's going to go.

Cheers,

Tony

*** Shadow, I wasn't necesserily preaching at you, I saw the "Ireland" part of your profile and assumed you were the original poster! My apologies! Millah, this was more for your benefit! ***

[Millah]

Hey all,
havent been online in a while. Thanks for all the replys .

Mannnnn i never knew it would be so hard to get a double bass. And all this is starting to confuse me a lot.

So on the upton site, i was looking around they all look pretty expensive. And i dont evin know what im looking for?

If ye guys were in my shoes (17 years not much money trying to get a bass for christmas) what would ye do? haha

thanks alot guys,
peace

[Silversorcerer]

Irish violin family luthiers? Check out this guy: http://www.beatley.ie/ I bet he could set up a double bass from anywhere. It says he works on basses. So he's your man for set-up there, if anyone knows anything about him. It would be a good idea for you to look into this fellow whichever bass you decide on because chances are, you will need a luthier down the road even if your bass comes with a perfect set-up. The basses from Gollihur don't have the worst set-up as far as new basses go. The sound post has to be fitted though and that is somewhat entailed. The good thing about those is the Fingerboards are not scooped too much to begin with and the bridge is set to a reasonable string height. The nut is too high, but that is easy to file down to your preference. You can get them tweaked pretty well but the set-up out of the box is very playable. I have one of these and I didn't change anything about it for three months. Of course I was playing a gig with it 4 days after I got it. Then I carved a new bridge with string spacing more to my liking and dressed the FB just a little here and there. I brought the nut down to the "business card depth". Setting the sound post is a chore only for the very patient and determined or the experienced. I think these are good instruments for the price and mine sounded good from the start and sounds better after a year and a half.

At first when you said you were buying a bass off the internet we all cringed because usually someone is checking out a $500 piece of garbage, but you are at least checking out a hybrid Strunal, which I have heard some good things about. If you get one of those and get this Dublin fellow to set it up for you, that could be OK. Also don't let the 4/4 size thing scare you off. If you are a large person, the size difference isn't much. I play a 43" string on a 7/8-4/4 five string and it is fine. I played a 3/4 four string for 2 years before changing and it was no problem at all. In fact the set-up on the bigger bass was so much better that it is much easier to play than my old 3/4 which had way too much scoop in the Fingerboard. On the link you provided they also appear to have the 3/4 size available, so you can take your pick on the size. The bigger ones can move more air and generally have a little deeper voice, particularly nice in the mid range.

The other thing I almost forgot to mention. Get a good teacher. You will be doing yourself a favor and avoiding possible injury.

[theshadow2001]

Originally Posted by Millah

Hey all,
havent been online in a while. Thanks for all the replys .

Mannnnn i never knew it would be so hard to get a double bass. And all this is starting to confuse me a lot.

So on the upton site, i was looking around they all look pretty expensive. And i dont evin know what im looking for?

If ye guys were in my shoes (17 years not much money trying to get a bass for christmas) what would ye do? haha

thanks alot guys,
peace

Well if i was 17 (which I used to be a few years back) I would get a part time job and start saving. I wouldn't try to get anything in time for christmas but would ask for funds later down the line as a late christmas present. I would try and lose my youthful impatience (not that im saying you are) and take my time and do as much research as I could on the matter before buying.

This website is about as good as you can get on the internet as far as information concerned. Just start doing different searches on manufacturers importing and other such things. Two important searches to do would be cheap chineese basses (CCB) and bass shaped objects (BSO) to educate you on the false economy of the really cheap basses such as those you'd find commonly on E-bay. Browse the forums and gather as much info as possible.

Ring different luthiers around the country see if they can't sort you out with something cheapish. Theres a few in the yellow pages.

I would look to be spending somewhere in the region of $1500 - $2000 which would be a similiar amount or more in euros once all tax shipping and import duty are taken into account. I would find a someone who teaches and ask him for some advice and as to the quality of work of the luthiers here. I'm not saying they are bad or good I just don't believe they would have much experience with basses. Again I could be wrong.


As for upton. Here are some basses that might suit.

One of these

One of these

Or one of these

Send him an email and see if he actually will ship to here. Also if you are going to import make sure you take out insurance on the shipping because the last thing you want is for it to arrive with a big dirty hole in the back from guys playing bass vollyball with it during transport.


Remember that once you have your bass the costs wont end there. Your going to need a bag to transport it. A luthier might still need to tweek it for you. Lessons are fairly essential too. Again all this can be found out through research.

It's not easy. I've wanted to get my hands on a bass for months. Im still in the research phase of things. all that being said because I'm a lefty it requires considerably more effort.Plus I have some other non bass related things that I need to get before I start buying. So don't let that put you off.


Another thing that has come to mind would be to ring the guy in cork who's details I posted above ask how much he can get that strunal you were looking at for. It could very easilly be well above the price thomann are offering it for. I believe there could be a lot of money to be saved by buying from a different country online. even after import duty tax etc. So thats another thing to consider. We haven't got the name "rip off republic" for nothing

[Millah]

thanks guys. Yea im going to do as much research as i can do on the whole subject now. Oh and about you being a lefty, im one myself ; P but i will prob start off playing with a right handed bass and get used to it. I did that with the drums a few years ago and it feels normal for me to play right my right hand and using right handed kits. lefthanded feels like my right used to.

thanks again anyway guys. Wonderful help

peace

[Millah]

Hey again guys.
Been looking around a bit. But in terms of price/practicality and everything like that this http://www.thomann.de/ie/thomann_kontrabass_2_m_34.htm is pretty good. Now im not looking for the perfect bass like so would this be something good to start with?
I should be able to get a luthier in ireland aswell so thats cool.

Thanks again guys.
peace

[Silversorcerer]

I have heard some good things about the hybrid Strunals, so if that is the manufacturer of that bass, it is probably fine if it is set up right. When you are beginning, the most important thing is that the bass be playable and that has mostly to do with the set up. The next important thing is to have a teacher. I know most folks agonize over the quality of their first bass. While it makes sense to want the best from the beginning, at the beginning most of us don't know what that is, and if we did, we still couldn't afford it. So the emphasis goes to the next and more controllable varible, which is how to make a less than perfect instrument playable and a good instrument to learn on. A hybrid Strunal set up well should be that for you;- a good dependable instrument to learn on. Make good friends with the luthier and spend some time with a teacher and you'll do fine with that instrument. Let us know how it turns out and good luck.