Need advice, sell it or fix it?

adarvas · #1 03-02-2010, 07:28 AM

I have a dilemma. I bought a bass a few years ago, a carved Hungarian "mystery" bass. I like the tone and the bass has a lot of character sonic and visual. The problem is that it takes a lot of work to coax and cajole the sound out of her. She's not very loud or responsive. (Sounds like anyone you know?) When pizzed I hear more "finger-on-ebony" than fundamentals.

I have tried new bridges, moving the post etc. ....not a lot of change.
The next two changes I'm about to make are more costly, so I figured I'll put the subject out to see if there is conjecture
or anything to help me make up my mind.

The fingerboard is thin. I know a new thick fb would help with the fundamentals.
I could remove the finish , thin out the front and the ribs (both feel too thick) and apply proper oil varnish. The current finish is not varnish, I don't know what it is.
I know of all the arguments against this move but I know, or suspect that there is a lot more sound in this bass.
I also though about changing the back bracing because it just feels like the instrument is compartmentalized and not resonating as one piece.
I know how insane this sounds but there is a mature tone -belying the age of this bass- I just want to hear more of it and most importantly improve its response.
Fix? Sell? Hmm....
Any thoughts?

tomshepp · #2 03-02-2010, 07:57 AM

Sounds like a lot of work and $$$$$ to put in, and the result of which is still unknown. I'd lean toward shopping around to find the best bass you can afford. MHO

Jukes · #3 03-02-2010, 07:58 AM

Get rid of it.

drurb · #4 03-02-2010, 07:59 AM

What's difficult for me to understand is that you say you like the tone while everything else you said suggests that you don't.

You seem willing to almost rebuild the bass to get what you want. I'd seek the advice of a talented luthier and find out if he/she thinks there is a substantially better bass hiding in there. It seems to me that it would have to be one very special instrument to justify doing all that work rather than shopping for an instrument that is more to your liking. After all, there's no guarantee that you'll have what you want even after pouring all that time and $$$ into it.

adarvas · #5 03-02-2010, 12:27 PM

What's difficult for me to understand is that you say you like the tone while everything else you said suggests that you don't

Let me clarify, and sorry if I was ambiguous. I like the tone but I want more of it and with less work.
I'm beginning to lean off the fence toward selling it. Obviously I can't predict how much the bass would improve with all that investment.
Thanks for the comments, I would welcome anything you have to add.

gbaker · #6 03-02-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adarvas

I have a dilemma. I bought a bass a few years ago, a carved Hungarian "mystery" bass. I like the tone and the bass has a lot of character sonic and visual. The problem is that it takes a lot of work to coax and cajole the sound out of her. She's not very loud or responsive. (Sounds like anyone you know?) When pizzed I hear more "finger-on-ebony" than fundamentals.

I have tried new bridges, moving the post etc. ....not a lot of change.
The next two changes I'm about to make are more costly, so I figured I'll put the subject out to see if there is conjecture
or anything to help me make up my mind.

The fingerboard is thin. I know a new thick fb would help with the fundamentals.
I could remove the finish , thin out the front and the ribs (both feel too thick) and apply proper oil varnish. The current finish is not varnish, I don't know what it is.
I know of all the arguments against this move but I know, or suspect that there is a lot more sound in this bass.
I also though about changing the back bracing because it just feels like the instrument is compartmentalized and not resonating as one piece.
I know how insane this sounds but there is a mature tone -belying the age of this bass- I just want to hear more of it and most importantly improve its response.
Fix? Sell? Hmm....
Any thoughts?

If your bridge is well fitted and thinned and you have tried sound post adjustments, string selections, and maybe end pin options then you have done the "cheap" improvements. If your bass is not speaking loud enough for you then further improvements are expensive, invasive and may not provide the sound you want. Start your search, there will be a much better chance of success.

JBHittle · #7 03-04-2010, 09:13 AM

I will presume that you have tried different brands of strings. They all sound different on different instruments....sometimes you have to go through a lot of strings to find the best ones for your bass and for your music. Thomastic Spriorcores would be a good general place to start. They are pretty bright and very responsive. The Heliocores are a very good string, but they just didn't give me what I wanted...so you have to shop around.

Also, have you filed the nut down? If the nut grooves are too high, you can work yourself to death and never get the response you want. For jazz and other roots music, you want to be sure the strings pass this test:

Take 2 business cards one on top of the other. Tuck them under the strings, one string at a time. The strings should be just snug enough to allow the thickness of the 2 cards to easily slide underneath (without forcing them) and just hold them in place. If not, the nut probably needs to be filed....but go slow...very slow...a little filing goes a long way. And you can't replace what you file out....take some time with it. Getting that nut adjusted to the right height can do wonders for the response, sound and easy of playing.

JBHittle · #8 03-04-2010, 09:16 AM

...forgot to add: make sure the soundpost is properly installed, and that it is under the foot of the bridge...that can take some experimenting as well.

JBHittle · #9 03-04-2010, 09:24 AM

...uhhh...senior moments...wonderful....I also forgot to mention that you should check and see if your tailpiece wire is too stiff. You should be able to grab the tailpiece with your hand and move it a bit...IE, push down to the right and to the left, and it should be flexible enough to twist, say, 1/4 of an inch either way. It needs to have flexibility. If it doesn't move much, or is positively stiff, then it is way too stiff and can act as a mute. Have a flexible airplane cable type wire or other more flexible cable installed. This can really open an instrument up.

drurb · #10 03-04-2010, 09:52 AM

While the suggested changes/adjustments can affect the sound, in my experience, except for changing the strings, they can't be expected to result in dramatic and fundamental improvements of the type the OP seems to be seeking, especially given what he has already tried. He has tried soundpost adjustments. I was assuming, perhaps improperly, that his setup was a basically good one such that the strings were a "proper" height at the nut.

adarvas · #11 03-04-2010, 03:46 PM

The nut and the post are professionally done, no issues there. I've used Spiros for 25 years and of course it was the default string. I have also tried Corellis, Evah Pirazzi, Hybrids...etc.

I just came back from George Heinl's here in Toronto I had the fb planed and I picked their brains a little.
The bass seems structurally sound. A new fb with a longer ebony tailpiece is what they suggested. Also, I played a couple of basses with Flexocore strings and I liked them. Sounds like a happy medium between the Spiros and synthetic core strings. Not nearly as harsh as Spiros and they bow well but they have the growl and singing quality for pizz.

I think I'm going to hang on to it for a bit. Try the Flexocors, and have a new fb installed. I know I've been kvetching but I like the tone of my bass and if I can open it up a bit more and most importantly improve the response I'll keep it.

drurb · #12 03-04-2010, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adarvas

I think I'm going to hang on to it for a bit. Try the Flexocors, and have a new fb installed. I know I've been kvetching but I like the tone of my bass and if I can open it up a bit more and most importantly improve the response I'll keep it.

Well, considering that those changes aren't too drastic and have been recommended by a professional luthier, it sounds like a reasonable plan. I wish you well. Please let us know how it turns out.

adarvas · #13 03-04-2010, 11:22 PM

Thanks guys for the advice.
On another note, Heinl had a Gill bass at the shop. Violin corner round back. This bass was already sold but he let me try it. Very impressive! Fairly mature tone out of a new instrument, good response and a great setup (they do it at the shop). Not very loud but projects well and sounded even across the board. Just curious, have you guys played a Gill?

j.stemmler · #14 08-01-2010, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adarvas

Thanks guys for the advice.
On another note, Heinl had a Gill bass at the shop. Violin corner round back. This bass was already sold but he let me try it. Very impressive! Fairly mature tone out of a new instrument, good response and a great setup (they do it at the shop). Not very loud but projects well and sounded even across the board. Just curious, have you guys played a Gill?

I have another Gill bass (from heinl) out on trial right now. I am really considering buying it. for a new bass, this thing sounds so mature. very even tone. the price is a little out of my budget, but i cant imagine how this thing will sound in 5-10 years. long story short, these are reallly legit basses

KJPbop · #15 08-01-2010, 03:32 PM

Greetings! I would be curious to see some photos................ Regards, KJPbop