Need General Help

[Blacksheep]

Hello everyone, I am new here,

Been playing electric bass for nearly 6 years, and have decided I would like to start double, to get somewhat of a "head start" on it, as I am only 15 years old. I do not have rich parents, and am not spoiled. I have some pretty good gear, I worked for it. My main bass is an Ibanez BTB406 and an SWR LA15 (pre Fender buy out). I have a job, washing dishes, but it's still a job. I'm making pretty decent money (minimum wage, but enough hours so that it adds up).

Now that I've introduced myself, I would like to ask for some advice on some different topics. And please dont just say use the search, because I have looked over some things, but I would rather have advice tailored to my situation.

I want to start early, so I can possibly make a career of playing. I dont have alot of money, though I cold probably save up to the 800-1000 dollar range. Are there any good basses in that range that would last me for a long time?

For lessons, the only real option I have, is getting driven into the city once a month for these lesson that last a couple hours (big group lessons) with the music conducteur at a university. Would that be enough to learn? Or is it more difficult and would it take more dicipline?

I think that I may be able to rent-to-buy as another option, but I'm not clear about that, though I know the final value of that instrument would be around 2000$.

Any kind of advice here would be appreciated. Right now these are all ideas, but my bas guitar teacher is trying to help me out with information on the clinics. But I'm still mostly at square one on this one, so any suggestions would help.

Thank you very much for your time,
Blacksheep

[Silversorcerer]

The group lessons are not a bad option, if individual instruction is hard to come by. Your budget is pretty tight but a rent to own deal might work. What is available locally as far as music instrument stores?

[Blacksheep]

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

The group lessons are not a bad option, if individual instruction is hard to come by. Your budget is pretty tight but a rent to own deal might work. What is available locally as far as music instrument stores?

Thanks very much for replying, I really appreciate it!

Well, locally there isn't anything, I have to drive into the city. I live in Manitoba, Canada, and the city I speak of is Winnipeg. There are the Canadian chains, such as Long-Mcquade, Mothers Music. There are other stores too though, such as a store called Quest Musique, which itself has a lot of violins Im pretty sure, so they should have a DB or two, they also focus on alot of renting, so it should be a pretty good possibility. There is a St. Johns music, which has tons of concert band gear and stuff like that, so there is probably some availabilty there.

The actually group lesson thing, was reccomended by my teacher, who himself took one, after he rented a Yamaha Electric stand up. He only went to one of them, he said all the other guys with actually DBs all stared at him lol

But he said he thought it would be a good oppourtunity for me, and I would like to try it out very much.

[Simandl Fan]

Well, Blacksheep, you have your work cut out for you but you sound smart, determined, and resourceful. Here's what I recommend-

1) get ahold of the basses of the Winnipeg Symphony
http://www.wso.mb.ca/ and talk to them. See if you can get some lessons.

2) the rent-to-own is a good option; $1000 is not going to get you very much of a bass. You're looking at a laminated bass and fiberglass bow, for sure, but you can still make good music on one. I'd look through the Lemur catalog (www.lemurmusic.com)

3) I do not recommend the group lesson. You will need regular, private lessons for best results. The double bass is very different from the bass guitar; many sloppy habits will not stand in your way on the BG but you MUST develop a good bow arm and your left hand will need lots of development.

4) does your high school have a bass you could use?

You willl surely get many other useful tips on this site. Good luck to you! Your determination will pay off for you down the line.

[GriffithLea]

Do your local public schools have a string program? Perhaps you can get hold of a school bass since you are presumably a student. You may be able to get your hands on a better bass that way. $1000 is generally only enough for a BSO (Bass-Shaped Object) . Plus, the director may be able to point you at a double bass instructor.

While I had my own bass when I was your age, it was by no means necessary - I could have had the use of any of the basses at school (well, most any - some of those seniors were pretty possessive of "their" basses).

You didn't say - are you working toward playing bowed, as in a symphony orchestra or chamber orchestra, or jazz/bluegrass/etc. ? It would have a bearing on the type of bass you should be looking for.

[sibass89]

In my experience group lessons tend only to be about $10 cheaper depending on how many students it is and in my opinion the extra $10 is worth it for individual instruction. You will definately benefit more from it, and individual attention is the best for a beginner. It's also difficult to take group lessons if everybody isn't on the same level. So you would have to find a group of beginners.

You'd be surprised what kind of basses you can find. My first bass was a Mathias Thoma factory plywood for $1300. I didn't have a bow, I borrowed one from my teacher until I saved up $250 for an alright bow.

Good luck with everything,
Nick

[Blacksheep]

The problem is I live in a small town of about 13 thousand people, and in the one highschool of 1130 students, there is no DB(though there is some pretty nice percussion equipment).

I think personally I'd more lean towards Jazz playing, though bow playing also interests me. I do appreciate these styles of music and all, but can't listen to them on my own time. I either have to be playing or watching a performance to really appreciate I guess.

The Long and Mcquade rent-to-own DBs are "Schoenbachs" which end up being around 2000 dollars. The problem with this is I will end up spending all my money on a bass, and wont get to save any money for the future, which is what I was planning to start doing. Though if I was going to study music, I guess I'd need one anyways, so it's probably best to get this purchase out of the way.

The group lesson sessions were reccomend by my teacher, who atteneded one, but he just couldnt get the hang of it (and his wife got sick of the buzzing noises he kept making lol). And getting into the city can be a problem, so once a month seems reasonable.

How expensive these start getting is just rediculous, I'm curious as to why, but it wont make a difference.... lol

Thanks for the help everyone, I would appreciate any more feedback.

[D McCartney]

I think this fellow is in Winnepeg. Maybe worth an email to see if he has suggestions.
http://www.mts.net/~prochown/english.html

[Blacksheep]

Originally Posted by D McCartney

I think this fellow is in Winnepeg. Maybe worth an email to see if he has suggestions.
http://www.mts.net/~prochown/english.html

Done and done. Re worded my initial post in this topic and sent it to both his addresses, perhaps some local insight would be best.

[Silversorcerer]

A google search for Schoenbach double bass shows a one year old laminated Shoenbach for sale at $1650 in Victoria. Probably not too close to Winnipeg, but these kind of searches might yield something suitable closer to you and give you an idea of what you can get back out of an instrument should you need to sell it later. You might also search for Strunals, Engelhardts, Christophers, Kremonas (not to be confused with Cremonas). Used laminated basses in good condition will not lose value usually, unless you damage it. This link has the details on the used Schoenbach and many others:
http://www.netinstruments.com/musica.../doublebasses/

By the way, Schoenbach, besides being a branded name for you locally is really just the town in Czechoslovakia now called Luby where they make a lot of musical instruments. You will have to do some searching to find the right instrument at the right price. If you take care of the instrument and get a decent one, it will hold most of it's value, so you can consider it an investment more than a dead expense. The more you can spend, the better the investment is. It's not like buying a laptop computer or game station that will be obsolete and worthless in a few short years. Musical instruments kept in good condition will eventually appreciate in value. Explain to your parents that investing in a good instrument is not throwing your hard earned money away. Back it up with the advertised prices of used instruments similar to what you can afford. If you are desparate for money later you can sell it for almost what you paid or sometimes more. Back in 1975, I bought a used 1973 Fender P. Whatever else I might have done with that money would definitely have been a worse investment. At any point I could have gotten my value back from it. By the way, I still have that one.

School orchestras are often taught in group environments so I don't see why that is a bad option for instruction. Surely a personal tutor is best, but I understand that where you are is pretty remote and you must make the best use of the resources available. It doesn't matter what style you are going to play;- this instrument is best learned with a bow. You can get a decent inexpensive brazilwood bow to learn with. Any teacher worth getting lessons from will require you to have a bow. If you are careful with the purchase and can hook up with a symphony player to give you some advice you will be able to get by with your limited resources. Good luck and keep us posted.

[5stringDNA]

As for bows, I'd recommend checking out Bob G (www.urbbob.com) or Upton (www.uptonbass.com). Both of these folks are exclusively bass dealers and have quality student bows for about $150. My bow cam from Bob a couple years ago and I've been really happy with it for the price- Paul W owns one as well and has said favorable things about it. I wouldn't worry about investing a whole lot in a bow if you plan on playing Jazz, as the bow is primarily a practice tool for jazz players. I only use my bow when playing at church or practicing, as I lean more towards Blues/jazz type styles.

Many of the older and wiser folks on the board would recommend playing any bass before you buy it. It is good advice, but there are some situations where the selection in your area can be downright horrible and you are forced to consider ordering. I'd still say buy local if at all possible. If you can find an experienced player to help you shop, than all the better. Buying used basses can be a can of worms if you don't know what you are doing/ looking for.

[Blacksheep]

I got a reply to my message to that bow maker. He had actually forwarded it to someone else, who told me to contact the Preperatory part of the music Division at the University of Manitoba. I sent them an email, I'll post what they tell me.

[aqsw]

I bought a DB about 6 months ago for my daughter. It is the Schoenbach Hybrid which really is the Strunal 5/20D. She seems to like it alot. She is at the U of M Jazz studies. They have a Strunal Laminated at L&M for about 2500.00.

Regards,
Jim