Need someone that knows there stuff!!!

[JJDMusic]

I am going to take the plunge in buying an fine quality instrument. I am curious about makers, and want to learn more about them. Who's basses would be the best investments(in terms of market price now and 20 years from now)? Does anyone know about Boosey and Hawkes Double Basses? Or Mario Bandini? Is there a good site to teach me about makers or at least an interesting book(I am not scared of learning on my own). Basically, I want a great sounding bass with a chance of greatly increasing in value over the years. I understand this is asking a lot, but if anyone can shed some light or at least throw a book at me I would appreciate it.
Thanks

[BRIDGE]

You probably mean Hawkes basses, either the model name currently made by Upton or the much older workshop of the same name. Boosey and Hawkes is a sheet music publishing company. As to the Upton Hawkes basses there are already several threads talking about them right now - you'll get a lot of opinions on them, most of them favorable.

[kevinmoore73]

Originally Posted by JJDMusic

Who's basses would be the best investments(in terms of market price now and 20 years from now)?

Crap, I left my crystal ball at work and I'm fresh out of uranium to power my time machine.

[David Kaczorowski]

Originally Posted by BRIDGE

Boosey and Hawkes is a sheet music publishing company.

Actually, they sold instruments too, until a few years ago.

[JJDMusic]

Boosey and Hawkes is now just a publishing company. I should have be more clear. They made basses and other instruments in the early 1900s.

Side note.
I apologize. Nobody can predict the future, however, smart people do know what is or at least could be a good investment. I am just asking for help, but thanks for the sarcastic comment. Also new basses tend to be less expensive and if they become labeled as a great orchestral bass and big names start buying them, the price of your $20,000 instrument can easily jump to $35,000.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by JJDMusic

I am going to take the plunge in buying an fine quality instrument. I am curious about makers, and want to learn more about them. Who's basses would be the best investments(in terms of market price now and 20 years from now)? Does anyone know about Boosey and Hawkes Double Basses? Or Mario Bandini? Is there a good site to teach me about makers or at least an interesting book(I am not scared of learning on my own). Basically, I want a great sounding bass with a chance of greatly increasing in value over the years. I understand this is asking a lot, but if anyone can shed some light or at least throw a book at me I would appreciate it.
Thanks

What is your price range? I have seen several 'real' Hawkes Basses and have also recently played a Bandini in NY and know of 2 others available. I think you pulled those two names from a website out in the Midwest.

You can only learn so much from the web or books or what people tell you. It is hands on experience and a lifetime or two you will need to really learn about Basses. Reputable/knowledgeable/honest shops are rare. Even some of the bigger shops mislead, overcharge or mis-name Basses they sell.

It's a crap shoot really unless you know where to shop and who to trust. Take your time before buying and ask questions. Don't buy just because they advertise!

Besides you price range, tell people where you are located.

[Jason Sypher]

This site will get you started. http://membres.lycos.fr/pbrun/index.html
Paul Brun has written some definitive books on the subject of vintage luthiers and instruments. The books aren't cheap if I remember but either is investing in instruments so take it as the first investment towards educating yourself. Your post is innocent enough but I have to advise you to take a lot of time researching the subject, talk to a lot of people in the business and play hundreds of basses before you buy anything. It all seems simple to find a bass that sounds great but to buy a bass as an investment "to greatly increase in value" is a slippery slope. Just off the cuff I think a "fine quality instrument" (taken literally) will run you at least $20,000 or in that neighborhood. I mean, you could go out and buy a Gagliano with papers for $100,000 and be sure that you will easily double that figure in 20 years but I don't think that's what your talking about here. My gut is to buy a quality bass that sounds great and is structurally sound and then worry about how it might appreciate later. Good instruments usually appreciate with time because they only become better the longer they are played. I assume you looking for a bass to play, right?

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

My gut is to buy a quality bass that sounds great and is structurally sound and then worry about how it might appreciate later. Good instruments usually appreciate with time because they only become better the longer they are played. I assume you looking for a bass to play, right?

+1 and well said! The OP seems to be far too interested in the investment aspect. It's not really clear if he wants it to play. JJDMusic-- are you a DB player? Are you looking primarily to buy something that will appreciate in value or primarily something that you will enjoy playing?

[PaulCannon]

It all depends on what's available. Even if you come up with a few names, that doesn't mean any of those instruments are on the market.

When you get around to trying specific instruments, ask the dealer/owner to let you borrow one or two instruments at a time. Play them for a week or two, get a good idea of how it plays. Take it to other players, especially professionals if you know any, and see what they think. If there are other luthiers in town, see what they think. Maybe get an outside appraisal. There aren't many resources available, but if it's an old instrument you might be able to gather some information about the maker. Particularly useful would be recent sale prices of other instruments by the same guy.

Just don't buy an instrument as soon as you see it. The bass should leave the shop before money leaves your wallet.

[JJDMusic]

Ken and Jason,
Thanks for your replies. I am looking for something to enjoy playing sorry I seem over the top with the whole investment aspect. I Have been shopping before and did not purchase a thing. Kolsteins, David Gage, Shank, and ISB conventions. And Ken you are right I am going to Cincinnati Bass Cellar next month to play some more instruments, which is why I am currently interested in more info on those specific basses. My Price range is up to $30,000, and I live in South Jersey. Ken, I have been to your shop a couple of times, I own a 6GN crotch walnut. Poor man's Black Tiger as you called it. I love that bass. Last time I was there(this was years ago) myself and a friend tried many of your basses and bows. We may come out again, but this is his trip. He just got a job with the Santa Barbara Symphony(principal) and is looking for a bass. He is a much better player then me but I am tagging along using the opportunity to play some more instruments. I would love to find one to take home on this trip. So I am trying to cram for the test. I don't want to be overcharged, or miss an opportunity. And I do not want to be sold something. I like to make educated decisions, especially with this much money.

...You should have seen me when I was house hunting.

[Matthew Tucker]

Boosey and Hawkes used to sell Paesold Instruments, which is a reasonable brand.

[jrlynch]

if you want a sure fire musical investment, buy a steinway. if you want a good bass, buy a good bass. nobody wants a collectable double bass in the entry of their mega-mansion ... everybody wants a steinway.

in either case, you gotta play it.

jeff.

[JJDMusic]

I do not think of a double bass as a bunch of shares of a stock. I just want a good instrument. And needed some information to better educate myself, to become better at judging what a good instrument is.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by JJDMusic

Ken and Jason,
Thanks for your replies. I am looking for something to enjoy playing sorry I seem over the top with the whole investment aspect. I Have been shopping before and did not purchase a thing. Kolsteins, David Gage, Shank, and ISB conventions. And Ken you are right I am going to Cincinnati Bass Cellar next month to play some more instruments, which is why I am currently interested in more info on those specific basses. My Price range is up to $30,000, and I live in South Jersey. Ken, I have been to your shop a couple of times, I own a 6GN crotch walnut. Poor man's Black Tiger as you called it. I love that bass. Last time I was there(this was years ago) myself and a friend tried many of your basses and bows. We may come out again, but this is his trip. He just got a job with the Santa Barbara Symphony(principal) and is looking for a bass. He is a much better player then me but I am tagging along using the opportunity to play some more instruments. I would love to find one to take home on this trip. So I am trying to cram for the test. I don't want to be overcharged, or miss an opportunity. And I do not want to be sold something. I like to make educated decisions, especially with this much money.

...You should have seen me when I was house hunting.

You have a PM. I can't go into detail in this public Forum so read the PM and contact me.

[jrlynch]

call mike shank at shank's strings, too ... lovely guy, totally upfront and honest and caring, not that ken isn't, just another option in the area (mike's in elizabethtown, pa).

sorry for over-reacting on the "investment" thang ...

jeff.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by jrlynch

if you want a sure fire musical investment, buy a steinway. if you want a good bass, buy a good bass. nobody wants a collectable double bass in the entry of their mega-mansion ... everybody wants a steinway.

in either case, you gotta play it.

jeff.

Ah, I do.. I have collectable/playable investment grade Basses in my office. I don't want a Steinway! I would rather have more Basses..

I think in the last 50 years, Basses have increased more in value than Pianos. Somewhere around 50-100x depending on the Bass on the high side. A Bass in need of $1,500 worth of repairs in 1971 was offered to me then for $1,000. as-is. About a year ago that same Bass was selling for $80,000. and that was not even a 3/4 sized Bass. Actually, it was the Dumas Maggini.

In the 1970s I saw many Italian Basses in the 2-5k range that today are over the 100k mark. An English Bass sold as a possible Fendt in the early '70s for $4,500. English Basses like this are now 50k on the low side and 100K+ on the high side?

Basses are also easier to move from room to room than a Piano. In case of a fire, who's gonna grab the Piano on the way out?

Although the prices are still up there, one thing is for certain. They are not making the old Basses anymore.

[ZonGuy]

I speculate that $5K instument will sell faster than a $10K instrument which will probably move faster than a $20K ......if you have to sell it.

[Jason Sypher]

Pure speculation on my part but I think that basses are going to slowly go the way of violins and vintage instruments are going to become far more valueable than they are now. Violins can be easily over a million dollars but a bass of similar pedigree will go for ten percent of that. I think that will change over time. Ken is right that it wasn't too long ago when you could buy an Italian bass for peanuts and there are stories out there of Kennedy's going for $1000 (Barker) just thirty years ago.

[jrlynch]

my steinway point was more about a consistent growth in value along with a rather absurd demand among non-musicians.

we were at an event some time ago with the requisite steinway in the entry ... they had a neighbor's kid playing it, struggling to get through some covers of show tunes. the least they could've done is booked someone who could *play* for the party! it was all rather sad.

obviously, i think everyone here would love to have an "investment quality" instrument to *play*. i think ralph lauren's car collection is pretty over the top, but at least he drives them.

jeff.

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Ah, I do.. I have collectable/playable investment grade Basses in my office. I don't want a Steinway! I would rather have more Basses..

I think in the last 50 years, Basses have increased more in value than Pianos. Somewhere around 50-100x depending on the Bass on the high side. A Bass in need of $1,500 worth of repairs in 1971 was offered to me then for $1,000. as-is. About a year ago that same Bass was selling for $80,000. and that was not even a 3/4 sized Bass. Actually, it was the Dumas Maggini.

In the 1970s I saw many Italian Basses in the 2-5k range that today are over the 100k mark. An English Bass sold as a possible Fendt in the early '70s for $4,500. English Basses like this are now 50k on the low side and 100K+ on the high side?

Basses are also easier to move from room to room than a Piano. In case of a fire, who's gonna grab the Piano on the way out?

Although the prices are still up there, one thing is for certain. They are not making the old Basses anymore.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by ZonGuy

I speculate that $5K instument will sell faster than a $10K instrument which will probably move faster than a $20K ......if you have to sell it.

That really depends on who's doing the shopping. I get most of my calls for Symphony grade Basses from 20-100k and up. I only deal with lower stuff for the local Philly market by request. Every area Bass shop has low end Basses. I just do it to save the locals a 100 mile trip.