New bass - How long to open up?

[buffalobillh]

Never owned a brand new bass until now. Shen SB 90. Sounds new and stiff. How long can I expect it to take for the sound to fill out/open up/sound seasoned?

[ole Jason]

It really just depends on how much the instrument vibrates... Playing it is the obvious preferred method but there are artificial means of vibrating a top that has shown some merit in opening up an instrument.

[OmnitzGarima]

Originally Posted by ole Jason

It really just depends on how much the instrument vibrates.

Yes, playing time is more important than calendar time.

[onionpuzzle]

you should get a pack of brand new strings and take somewhere to get set-up...intonation, etc...amazing what it can do for your bass

[Steve Swan]

If you play it regularly every day, you should be able to hear and feel significant developement within about 6 months.

[Marc Piane]

Playing long tones with a bow helps. I'll even do that before a recording session to remind my bass to sound pretty.

[drurb]

It's debatable how much one can expect a ply bass to open up. I don't want to engage in that debate but, IMO, it's not much at all. Quoting from David Gage's site:

In my opinion, plywood basses improve with age; a quality Kay bass that's 30 or 40 years old can be a really good instrument.

Even for carved basses, IMO, the changes ascribed to opening up are often over-emphasized. As has been noted in these threads on a number of occasions, even for a carved bass, its basic character will be largely in place at the beginning of its life (see below). One cannot expect to hear a fundamentally different instrument even after many, many hours of play and/or many years. Yes, things will change, but they are subtleties of the character that is already there. Time and playing will not turn a mediocre bass into a coveted section or solo instrument. Ideally, one should buy a bass with which one is quite happy. Anything beneficial that happens after that is icing on the cake.

I believe luthiers will confirm that a bass can change rather dramatically within several days after it is first assembled. That's a somewhat different matter.

So, if your SB90 sounds "stiff," it's quite likely that nothing much will change. Perhaps it would improve with an adjustment to its setup (e.g., sound post position). Might as well wait a few weeks and see. As for it sounding filled out, opened up and seasoned, well, whether it ever will really depends much on what you mean by that and what are your expectations.

[Steve Swan]

While it's true that plywood basses don't develope quite as dramatically as their solid topped sisters, the higher quality instruments do gain a lot in response and tonal depth through regular play. This shop places a great many new Shen plywood basses with owners and it's fun to see how much they do change with every day play over the course of even a few months.

[buffalobillh]

Thank you for the responses. I like the sound of the new Shen, and I do understand that a ply can be limited in how much it opens up. I had it set up Friday, and I will continue playing it as it is for a while to see how things work out. So far, I am satisfied overall.

I played a Kay for many years, and the sound was really good for what I do, however, after I had some much needed repairs and a new fingerboard was put on, the character of the bass changed, and it really wasn't working for me any longer. I need a ply for a road bass (lots of travel, plus lots of outdoor stuff in south Texas heat, going from high humidity to low humidity weekly), hence the Shen (getting an artist price helped). Really wanted a hybrid, but really thought that a ply was best.

A new Shen and an old Kay have different sounds, but not so dissimilar that it's a problem. I had it set up Friday (Jim Scoggan in Houston), and it plays VERY easy compared to my Kay. I strung it with gut G &D and Zyex A & E (wanted to try the Zyex). I'm hearing a little more growl and a little less thump than I'm used to, but I'm not unhappy. I love that sound. Just wondering how much a ply will naturally open up. We might address the soundpost the next time I see Jim. I play amplified at significant volumes, so all of this may not be a huge issue on the job. Now when my playing needs require a hybid or carved instrument, I may have another set of questions altogether.

[Ed Fuqua]

To further muck up the murk, I'd say that whatever sound the bass has now is going to be some version of what it will always have; no amount of playing/vibration is going to turn a midcentury German factory bass into an 18th century Italian one. You'll be able to get a more mature version of the sound that is already there in the bass, but that's about it.

I liked the sound of my bass when I got it (it's a German factory bass, thought to be "between the wars"), after playing it for about 10 years it really developed into something. But that was there kind of all along, that's what I liked about the sound enough to buy it (plus it was in my price range).

[salcott]

"......I'd say that whatever sound the bass has now is going to be some version of what it will always have; no amount of playing/vibration is going to turn a midcentury German factory bass into an 18th century Italian one. You'll be able to get a more mature version of the sound that is already there in the bass, but that's about it."

Ed has it right.

[Chasarms]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

To further muck up the murk, I'd say that whatever sound the bass has now is going to be some version of what it will always have; no amount of playing/vibration is going to turn a midcentury German factory bass into an 18th century Italian one. You'll be able to get a more mature version of the sound that is already there in the bass, but that's about it.

I liked the sound of my bass when I got it (it's a German factory bass, thought to be "between the wars"), after playing it for about 10 years it really developed into something. But that was there kind of all along, that's what I liked about the sound enough to buy it (plus it was in my price range).

Agreed.

My 10-yr-old Shen as a SLIGHTLY better low-end response and MIGHT be a touch louder than when I bought it, but for the most part, it sounds the same as the day I got it new.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by salcott

"......I'd say that whatever sound the bass has now is going to be some version of what it will always have; no amount of playing/vibration is going to turn a midcentury German factory bass into an 18th century Italian one. You'll be able to get a more mature version of the sound that is already there in the bass, but that's about it."

Ed has it right.

Yes, we seem to be echoing, and thus, agreeing with each other.

Originally Posted by drurb

...even for a carved bass, its basic character will be largely in place at the beginning of its life (see below). One cannot expect to hear a fundamentally different instrument even after many, many hours of play and/or many years. Yes, things will change, but they are subtleties of the character that is already there. Time and playing will not turn a mediocre bass into a coveted section or solo instrument.

[ThumpPlunkJunk]

Originally Posted by fingers

Playing long tones with a bow helps. I'll even do that before a recording session to remind my bass to sound pretty.

I do the same before I practice. I read a story about a Russian violin pedagogue that took on some prodigy violinist as a student. The student thought he'd be playing concertos and whatnot, and that's all he practiced.

When he got to his teacher, the pedagogue made him play open notes for two weeks straight. The student thought he was insane.

The theory was that you need to listen to the sound of the instrument and feel the way the specific instrument is supposed to sound before you can play it. I don't entirely entertain playing it for two weeks straight that way, but apparently it breaks you and the instrument in.

Anyway, that's violins--I've had my bass for about a year, and I think over the last three or four months especially, it's been sounding great. I take about ten minutes to warm it up before I start practicing--the same way a runner needs to stretch, I've found you and the bass both need a warm up. I do those Gary Karr finger exercises before I practice and I find that I get a lot more done as a result--I'm not frustrated with my fingers or my bass and I can jump straight in, as opposed to playing badly for an hour and then playing well, with bad morale.

[mdwallace]

Set up is so crucial. I played a new thousand dollar Chinese bass for a month, and because it was set-up properly it opened up a lot the first few days and actually sounded really good. You can even sometimes get rid of a wolf-tone by just playing the hell out of it and making sure the sound-post never gets too tight. But if the sound-post is too tight and the top doesn't vibrate freely, no instrument will open up much.

[buffalobillh]

I appreciate all the input so far. So far, so good.

[nicechuckh]

I just have a CCB, tho a solid, well made one, and I'm not sure if the sound has improved or I've improved getting a good sound from it, probably both, but still has the same charactor as others have said. Yours is a Shen, does anyone else think that the wood in the SB180 looks better than thier more expensive basses? lol

[Dbassmon]

The stiff feel may have a lot to do with setup, how much tension on the sound post, etc. Some strings are more supple that others. Get some recommendations for a good luthier in your area and get your setup tweaked.

My bass was very bright when I bought it, over the past three years it has definitely lost the overly bright sound. Mine has a carved top, not sure how much or if that is applicable to a ply-bass.

[Raka]

The breaking in period exists, in my opinión, but it's really difficult to measure or evaluate it. There are a lot of factors that change, and some of them relates to our perception. I recently had a bass at home for testing it, worth about 5500EUR, and i disliked it because the g string had a very different sound than the other strings, for the worse. I compared it to my 3500EUR bass, and arco wise mine had a less nice sound, but pizzicato wise the 5500EURbass sounded kind of hollow in the short distance. That was also the perception of my teacher. I thought that maybe was a soundpost issue, but I'm not a expert.
A week playing it later, that significant difference of the g string was totally gone, and my own bass now sounded nicer arco wise. Go figure...