New bass thoughts....

[peterpalmieri]

Well I have told myself I wouldn't buy a really nice bass until my playing got beyond the capabilities of the bass I own. I have had a Kolstein Hybrid bass for a little over two years now and have been studying fairly diligently. I am now 35 years old, I did major in music at Stony Brook and studied with Julius Levine at the time I owned an Andreas Morelli and had competent classical skills. After getting out of college I gave up on the DB and sold my bass to buy a condo when I got married.

Fast forward to two years ago and I was inspired to pick it back up and went the inexpensive route (3-4k) on a hybrid made by Barrie's shop in Eastern Europe. Barrie has been very good to me over the years and his shop is only a few minutes from my office.

So I shouldn't have done it but I stopped by Kolstein's yesterday to pick up a few things and spent some serious time playing some nice basses. My playing is coming along (relatively speaking) and the differences between my student model bass and some of the great instruments in his shop are huge. Not sure I am going to jump into the fire immediately or not just yet.

I was only in there about an hour and a half but played allot of basses. The first thing I found was that the strings dictated allot of tonal characteristics. Most basses set up with Barries strings (varicore or Heritage) but a few had strings with red wrapping on them. Those basses generally sounded better pizz and I wonder if those are spirocores that I've never had on my own bass?

A few thoughts a "Magginni" sounded unreal arco beautiful huge bass. The Fendt model sounded very nice pizz great growl and decent arco, knowing that this bass is on the much cheaper scale then most of the old basses I played. A really great bass was the Kolstein Lafaro Prescott copy, wonderful bass and while quite expensive it is on the low end when compared to old basses.

Not sure where I am going just yet but I can say practicing last night and this morning on my cheapo bass after playing those basses yesterday kinda stinks. I'm not sure from a skills standpoint I deserve to get a great bass but for me monetarily it's not out of the question...

Pete

[tomshepp]

I'll say this: I played on my old kay (discussed in detail in other threads), for many years. I turned 50 this year and decided to treat myself to my New Standard LaScala. For me it's as good an instrument as I could want. The one thing I still maintain is why did I wait so long? When you realize how much better the music is when you play on a good instrument, you have to think, like Bob Gollihur says," Life is too short for bad tone". Something like that anyway. Move on up!

[christ andronis]

Pete, there was a Kolstein Fendt for sale in the classifieds here. It is a wonderful sounding bass that plays really well. I was fortunate to go by and try it out. I just don't have the scratch for it right now but he was selling it for 6k which, according to everybody and their mother whose opinion I respect, is an absolute steal. There's pics...it's a beautiful bass.

[Dbassmon]

Life is short and you will be dead a very long time. If a new bass will bring you joy and you have them means..... don't wait. IMO of course.

[peterpalmieri]

I have looked at that thread, I wouldn't buy a bass without playing it and have it shipped to me. But for a guy in the mid west it is certainly worth a few hour drive to check out...

Pete

[marvin spangles]

Originally Posted by tomshepp

I'll say this: I played on my old kay (discussed in detail in other threads), for many years. I turned 50 this year and decided to treat myself to my New Standard LaScala.!

Just curious How much better than the Kay is your La Scala . Also which one do you have? laminate hybrid or fully carved?
peter

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by peterpalmieri

The first thing I found was that the strings dictated allot of tonal characteristics. Most basses set up with Barries strings (varicore or Heritage) but a few had strings with red wrapping on them. Those basses generally sounded better pizz and I wonder if those are spirocores that I've never had on my own bass?

You've got to be kidding me.

You haven't put Spirocores of any kind on your bass yet?

Do that before you spend real money, you may get a little surprise.

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

You've got to be kidding me.

You haven't put Spirocores of any kind on your bass yet?

Do that before you spend real money, you may get a little surprise.

Do they have red windings?

If they are the same strings I played in Kolstein's they sounded killer pizz and were almost impossible to bow. Although I'm not quite sure if that was what I was playing.

I will order a set right now in any case.

[Uncletoad]

They are challenging to bow. Read the Dispelling the Spirocore Arco myth thread. Also the beginning of my Spirocore Birth to Death thread.

They are bright and annoying at the start but mellow into some seriously powerful stuff over some playing time.

You can bow them, you just have to realize that they expose every flaw in your skill. Once I experienced the power under the bow with them I prefer them for what I do arco. Section stuff is a different thing.

[peterpalmieri]

Well they are on their way. I just took off my Eudoxa EA Oliv DG and went back to Kolstein heritage strings, so this will be an interesting experiement.

I think I am going to try to commit to 1 lunch hour per week trying basses in Barrie's shop. Not sure if he'll love the idea or not but I certainly will.

Is it possible to find a great orchestral and jazz bass in one? I am really committed to practicing my Simandl and getting involved in a community orchestra at some point in the future.

Are allot of guys using two seperate basses one setup for jazz and the other for section work? Or is a great bass great at both?

[400$Bass]

Originally Posted by peterpalmieri

Well I have told myself I wouldn't buy a really nice bass until my playing got beyond the capabilities of the bass I own. I have had a Kolstein Hybrid bass for a little over two years now and have been studying fairly diligently. I am now 35 years old, I did major in music at Stony Brook and studied with Julius Levine at the time I owned an Andreas Morelli and had competent classical skills. After getting out of college I gave up on the DB and sold my bass to buy a condo when I got married.

Fast forward to two years ago and I was inspired to pick it back up and went the inexpensive route (3-4k) on a hybrid made by Barrie's shop in Eastern Europe. Barrie has been very good to me over the years and his shop is only a few minutes from my office.

So I shouldn't have done it but I stopped by Kolstein's yesterday to pick up a few things and spent some serious time playing some nice basses. My playing is coming along (relatively speaking) and the differences between my student model bass and some of the great instruments in his shop are huge. Not sure I am going to jump into the fire immediately or not just yet.

I was only in there about an hour and a half but played allot of basses. The first thing I found was that the strings dictated allot of tonal characteristics. Most basses set up with Barries strings (varicore or Heritage) but a few had strings with red wrapping on them. Those basses generally sounded better pizz and I wonder if those are spirocores that I've never had on my own bass?

A few thoughts a "Magginni" sounded unreal arco beautiful huge bass. The Fendt model sounded very nice pizz great growl and decent arco, knowing that this bass is on the much cheaper scale then most of the old basses I played. A really great bass was the Kolstein Lafaro Prescott copy, wonderful bass and while quite expensive it is on the low end when compared to old basses.

Not sure where I am going just yet but I can say practicing last night and this morning on my cheapo bass after playing those basses yesterday kinda stinks. I'm not sure from a skills standpoint I deserve to get a great bass but for me monetarily it's not out of the question...

Pete

IMHO...Be like George Jefferson and MOVE ON UP !!!!!

[jallenbass]

Originally Posted by peterpalmieri

Are allot of guys using two seperate basses one setup for jazz and the other for section work? Or is a great bass great at both?

I currently use 2 basses: A 125 year old Tyrolean for Orchestra and a 125 year old German for Jazz. My previous bass, a 1907 Hawkes Panormo, was great for either though.

[Uncletoad]

Although I don't the Alsatian Queen would do double duty even with Spiros just fine.

[anonymous02282011]

Pete my friend, you're not a bassist till you've played on Spiros! I kid, I kid. Well, not really. ; )

Sound comes partly from you and partly from your instrument. Sometimes you inspire the instrument, sometimes the instrument inspires you and sometimes it's a little bit of both. I believe the true masters are able to pull a nice sound out of almost any instrument, but those guys end up owning beautiful old basses for good reason.

So, yea, you only live once. Decreasing your caloric intake, practicing meditation and perhaps doing some yoga may prolong your healthy years.

In the meantime, if you've got the scratch, go for the nice bass, be happy, and make a happy sound.

[Mike D.]

Talk to Barrie about your plans and what you want to be able to do with your bass.
I don't believe jazz playing requires a totally different set-up from classical. If you are doing pizz work exclusively, you can ask a luthier to set up the bridge-arch/fingerboard-arch fairly flat, in which case the bass will be un-bowable.
I think anyone can learn to play jazz on a well-rounded bridge. I remember Ken Smith saying something about a good set-up should be set-up to play! arco/pizz.
That being said, there are plenty of strings that work great for pizz that are sort of difficult to bow, and great arco strings that are way too dull to pizz. There are lots of great hybrid strings out there.
You can try a set of Dominants, or Evah Pirazzi's. Those are 2 great strings for both arco and pizz. You can get Bel-Cantos over Spirocores. In fact, you can do Dominants OR Pirazzi's over Spirocores if you want that great low E pizz sound. Even just the Spirocore E can suffice for that growly thing.
Spirocore continues to get bad press for bowing, but as mentioned earlier, they can be great if you learn how to play them with the bow. Spiros can be suprisingly easy to bow once you get the hang of them. There's a few classical players that use a Spirocore E anyways, so the idea of it being exclusively a pizz string is entirely false.
Anyways, I feel a great bass is a great bass. I think, generally one can find great jazz basses for cheaper than great orchestra basses. BUT, that doesn't mean those $10 000-20 000 basses aren't nice under the bow. For example; a GOOD orchestra bass can be a KILLER jazz bass (I believe that line was taken from Ken Smith as well).
Anyways, hope that helps.

[Uncletoad]

My arco playing has improved exponentially since I got the AQ. Some of that is it is easier to get a good sound from it even with Spiros. Some is that I like that bass so much I practice more.

Whatever works.

The relationship you develop with your DB is unique and hard to describe to someone else...even slab players. It's like an appendage or a familiar.

I strongly suggest finding a new partner whenever you can afford to.

[TroyK]

I think it is reasonable to have a bass that you can play jazz on and practice Simandl and play in a community orchestra on. Know lots of guys who do.

Ditto on Spirocrores. If you decide to stick with your bass, talk with Barrie about the setup if you change strings, it might make a difference.

And, as for stepping up to another bass and which one, it's a personal decision. I would definitely change strings maybe tinker with setup first if you generally like or have liked your bass. But the right bass is the one that you commune best with musicially and if yours doesn't speak to you any more, then you may have outgrown it. I don't know anything about the model you have, I can't imagine that it's not a good bass.

I had a disaster of a NOS German playwood bass with an interesting neck reset for a while before I found my Ilsa. It made a big difference to me and I gained that much again when I got to the right strings and setup. Take your time and though I only know Mr. Kolstein by reputation, I agree with whoever said "talk to him about what you're thinking". You're an existing customer who may want to pop for a finer instrument. Generally shops take good care of people like you. There are only so many people to sell doublebasses to and they take up a lot of shop space.

Take your time, find the right one. When you fell in love with the woman who made you want to sell your bass and buy a condo, you knew. When you meet your bass, you'll know too.

[tomshepp]

Originally Posted by marvin spangles

Just curious How much better than the Kay is your La Scala . Also which one do you have? laminate hybrid or fully carved?
peter

A ton! Mine is fully carved. The Kay probably could be better with some work and $$

[bassist14]

Originally Posted by TroyK

I think it is reasonable to have a bass that you can play jazz on and practice Simandl and play in a community orchestra on. Know lots of guys who do.

(......)
Take your time, find the right one. When you fell in love with the woman who made you want to sell your bass and buy a condo, you knew. When you meet your bass, you'll know too.

+1

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by TroyK

Take your time, find the right one. When you fell in love with the woman who made you want to sell your bass and buy a condo, you knew. When you meet your bass, you'll know too.

I should be clear, I sold my Morrelli for the down payment originally because of my poor saving habits at the time not because my future wife made me. I was also very burnt out as I really wanted to be a jazz player and at the time my school was very strictly classical study. Anyway that could be a long and uninteresting story.

Thanks for all the info guys, like I said I am going to spend more time in Barries shop, I do have a good relationship with him so I believe he will steer me in the right direction.