New Double Bass! Copy of Pietro Palotta

[GerardSamija]

"... (Peter was joking around at
his shop saying that he was getting old
and wanted to make as many basses as
he could before it became physically
impossible for him to do so)"

That's weird. I was just about to put in my 2¢ on Peter's basses with a guess worded almost like that. I was thinking as I read this, as I had before in setting up 4 or 5 of his new basses for clients, that he seems to be rushing to finish as many as he can, and hence the heavy reliance on thickness sander, router, and other powered assistants. I can dig it, but really wish he wasn't using top quality wood from 300+ year old trees to do it. Not that I have anything against Peter, at all! I spoke to him on the phone a couple of times, regarding mostly one of his basses which had a punctured rib. I wanted advice on what glue he used, to simplify accessing the wound through a partial seam opening in the back/upper rib area. He was a jovial, fine sounding fellow, fully helpful and kind.
But one thing he made very clear (and this was back when he'd 'only' made about 20 basses), was that he had almost zero contact with players for repairs and setups. His was almost strictly a maker's role, and he became almost put-out when I pushed a little for better setups directly from his hands. He simply didn't know how, and had no expressed desire to learn. That set off alarms for me.
Anyway, I have since seen a couple more, and all that lovely West Coast maple covered in sanding lines and stain have upset me a little. In his book he talks of varnish, a little, but it's apparently not the same process he actually uses. Too many times I've seen stain not penetrating glue pools around joints, stain hyper-penetration into cracked back kerf bends, and varnish filling open seams. The basses are... basses, but is that enough? To my way of thinking, if he made half as many, he'd have a genuine shot at making a lasting reputation for himself in the coming century. Isn't fine workmanship always the chief criterion in getting more than a sentence beside one's name in a violinmakers dictionary? Of course, conversely, if I manage to get a single bass done I'll be in a better position to talk.
Anyway, the setup stuff needed isn't often more than a half-day's effort. A proper post, a full fungerboard dressing, some bridge trimming for a more open sound, a little nut trimming for ease in half position... that's really all it takes to make them play pretty well. And it's not like the work is atrocious; it's really not that bad, just too pushed, to much evidencing the errors of racing to finish. And stain with clear varnish over top is a nasty way to kill the glory of beautifully flamed maple, and really excellent spruce.

[Damon Rondeau]

If he's not a player, or if he doesn't deal with them regularly, that explains a lot...

At his site there's a photo of a scroll. Nice enough scroll but check out the way the thing's been strung. Sheesh, doesn't look good.

[AMJBASS]

For the most part I agree with what has been said. He is using really gorgeos wood for his instruments. The spruce top on the Pallotta is probably the absolute best piece I have seen. The grain is perfectly straight without any visible imperfections, and uniform across the whole top! However, it wasn't varnished perfectly. If he didn't rush his instruments, he would have some really great basses, instead of a couple of good ones, and some very expensive fire wood. I am going to Peter's this week. I'll let you know how I do!

[Sam Sherry]

Originally posted by Damon Rondeau
If he's not a player, or if he doesn't deal with them regularly, that explains a lot...

My sister and brother-in-law run a fine violin shop in Los Angeles -- its www.VitaDolceViolins.com They are fortunate to work on the Fine Old Masterworks Which Deserve Capitalization. Neither of them can play for squat. You're absolutely right, though, Damon, they deal with players all the time. Sometimes, string players can be pretty flaky, though . . . I bet all you luthiers on the board can tell stories about sound-post "attitude" adjustment.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally posted by Samuel
. . . I bet all you luthiers on the board can tell stories about sound-post "attitude" adjustment.

My late mentor had a sound post trick that might amuse you. One symphony violin player had a habit of droping by my mentor's shop about once a week complaining about the sound post adjustment. My mentor would take the violin, insert his SP setter and proceeded to tap the back with the end of the setter without ever touching the post. After a couple of minutes, he would return the fiddle to it's owner. The owner would play the violin for 4 or 5 minutes and then tell my mentor how much better the instrumented sounded after the "adjustment".

[GerardSamija]

The only time I have ever damaged a bass (accidentally, that is) was during a soundpost adjustment. The player, a very respected and talented fellow, but an incredible fuss-pot, had me hovering over this thing for 3 1/2 hours, right through lunch time and into the afternoon. I was starving, light-headed, and frankly getting p.o.'d that he was still not quite happy... just a little of this, no, a tad back to where it was, no, that's not it, not quite, I think maybe that other post, of you could just get a little more focus on the D string...... and on and on.
I had fitted the third post that afternoon. The slopes of belly and back were extreme, as much as 15°, at both ends of this very highly arched solo bass. (L.M. no doubt has guessed by now who the client is.) It was one of those things where if you go a bit too far from centre and want to go back, it's too late, and another post muct be cut. To add to the infuriating whole, the f-hole was far too skinny, about 14mm at the notches. Had to go in through the lower hole every single time with the post, hold it with a fingertip, stab it firmly via the other part of the opening, and proceed with the dance, again and again.
Anyway, I slipped. The fellow was getting very nervous himself, no doubt picking up my vibes strongly by then. He kept glancing at me sidelong, like he was expecting me to explode. I didn't, but my hand slipped trying to push the post just a hair East... and the heel of my palm hit the f-hole wing, making the first crack there in the roughly 130 years the bass had been around. Man, was I pissed! And horrified! The guy was actually blushing, no doubt filled with his own coctail of emotions.
Took me another half hour to get the post set to his satisfaction, then I kept the bass 'till evening to glue and cleat the wing crack.
He has always come back for repairs, so I guess it wasn't fatal to the relationship. But wow, that was the most stressful soundpost I've ever set.

..........................

On another related issue; anyone else seen Un Couer en Hivér? (A Heart in Winter) Daniel Auteuil (sp?), and Emmanuel Béart (again, sp?). There's an utterly horrifying soundpost adjustment scene in that great movie.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally posted by GerardSamija
The only time I have ever damaged a bass (accidentally, that is) was during a soundpost adjustment.

Hey Gerard - are you saying that there have been times when it is wasn't accidental?

[Damon Rondeau]

And I'm curious whether the client still submits you to Chinese soundpost torture...

[GerardSamija]

Oh yeah, to be sure, I've 'hurt' a few basses in the course of my duties. Got to be cruel to be kind, as that bad song went. (sorry, really, if I've put that tune into anyone's loop-o-matic bad song player) Popping bellies is especially harsh at times.
My mother was helping me for a while, about 6 years ago. Guess she intuited her impending demise, and arranged cunningly for make-work jobs with myself, and with my younger brother at his lab. Made for some decent hours of visiting. And she and I had built my first instrument together, a walnut dulcimer, back in '86, so she knew her way around some tools and wood.
One afternoon I had a bass come in which had a bad belly crack, right along the bar. Had to come apart. The player needed it in a week for a gig, so I set to with my chopped-off butter knife as soon as the door was closed behind him. My mother watched, in horror, for all of 30 seconds, maybe a little less. Then she scurried out of the room with hands on ears, muttering something like "oh I can't watch, let me know when it's done". Those sounds, sometimes the ripping is akin to damaging flesh, somehow. She saw only the cavalier aspect, and that by itself would be scary. She hadn't understood how much I was seeing, that every sound means someting a little different, dictates the next move and angle and whether or not it's safe to proceed in that spot at all. All done in 5 minutes, and she had some tea and came back to help clean up inside before the gluing started.
As for soundpost-guy, I shouldn't speak harshly of him. Really a solid fellow. Just, well, sometimes those who don't understand soundposts, bellies, and settling in with an adjustment to see what it has done, it makes me a little tense. He's not subjected me to that again, though there was one other occassion for a setting-up after a bad fall. Broke the head off, sideways. Major grafting. The post went down, of course.
And then there were about 5 sessions of buzz hunting. But that's never happened to anyone else, right? Finally found the runt; some DIY guy before he owned the bass had had it apart and done some foul things. Shame, really. One if these was sanding the entire inner belly silky smooth! Ick!!! So it was impossible to see anything there with the belly on, and the edges were far too patched-together to remove the top safely without re-edging all around. So I spent many an hour tapping, pressing, knocking, playing it hard, and peering around as best I could frem every angle a couple of mirrors would afford. One day the light caught it just right when I had surrendered to the urgency of the buzz and partially lifted about 30% or the bar-side belly seam. Just above the f-hole, perhap 2 inches, there was about an inch-wide runout, feathered, and almost invisible thanks to 400-grit sandpaper. When probed, it lifted like a #1 clarinet reed. Flappy as heck. I saturated the thing with hot hide glue, gave it a wipe, and closed the edge without a second glance. Buzz resolved. Haven't heard about it since.

[E_bottom]

I bought a Panormo Copy from Peter. I love the sound for one. It's big around the size of a Hawks but boy does it sound good. I was fortunate in that it had Sloan machines and a pretty good Chinesse Gotz imitation endpin. The unfortunate thing is it has a curved french Bridge on it that doesn't have adjusters and after this long dry Michigan winter I can barley play with action as low as it is. But other than that the wood does seem to be very good. According to Peter he ages it for about 7 years and my bass was made in 2000 so it already had a few years on it before I bought it. My bass did have a smalll crack on the rib right next to the endpin that I didn't notice until I got it back to detroit. My lutheir says it's already been fixed and even if it hasn't it doesn't really effect the sound. The other thing I'm starting to notice is it does sound a little choked sometimes so I think some soundpost adjustment will be in order. But other than that I have loved the bass since day one. And Peter has to be the nicest man on the planet. Did any of you guys play or see this bass last summer I bought in I belive May of 2002. Another question for you guys that have seen Peter's basses, do you think that it's a good idea to replace the bridge and endpin and have the soundpost adjusted.

[countrymno]

I have a Double Bass made by Peter Chandler, made in 1998, instrument #84, Double Bass #20, a "Panormo copy", I believe it is the one illustrated on the cover of his book "So you want to make a Double Bass". It is a wonderful instrument, such a joy to play..too bad my arthritis is so bad now I hardly touch it...but a joy to own and look at.

[David Potts]

Jack Lesberg, famous earlier jazz bass player from (Chicago? and) New York had a wonderful 5/8 Palotta that he brought to Australia for a few years before he returned. Does anyone know what happened to that? He was a student of Fred Zimmerman.

DP