new slant on ERB?

velvetkevorkian · #1 06-02-2005, 06:59 AM

would it be feasible (or desirable?

) to take a 5 string (tuned EADGC) and fit a low C extension? that could work, no?
this is purely theoretical, btw. i was just wondering...

Paul Warburton · #2 06-02-2005, 09:06 AM

I don't know about desirable, but certainly feasible.....It's been done, and, I think somebody on this forum has done it.

godoze · #3 06-02-2005, 09:10 AM

ERB ? Do you mean EUB ?

Paul Warburton · #4 06-02-2005, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ

ERB ? Do you mean EUB ?

I figured he had a new name for DB, so I just ignored that.
So, I take back what I said until you tell us exactly what you're talking about velvet...God, I feel silly calling somebody velvet....how about a real name?

Bassius · #5 06-02-2005, 10:00 AM

ERB=extended range bass

EADGC with a C extention is something i really want in a bass...
i have talked with poelmann in getting a custom made one...but i have just go with a 6 stringer

godoze · #6 06-02-2005, 12:55 PM

Do you have any idea how wide the neck would be on a 6 string DB ? Not an EUB...

Not an instrument i would want to wrestle with.

Chasarms · #7 06-02-2005, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ

Do you have any idea how wide the neck would be on a 6 string DB ? Not an EUB...

Not an instrument i would want to wrestle with.

If so, I hope it don't fall on you.

The table would have to be fairly stout to handle the downforce of six strings. Add that to the extra wood in the neck/fb, and It'd be a heavy sucker.

Thumb position seems like a better option.

Silversorcerer · #8 06-02-2005, 02:14 PM

So where were you guys when we were discussing the SEVEN string DBs made by that fellow at allbasse.com? There is also a six string violone in a museum that has a 105 cm (very 3/4 DB-ish) string length so the construction obstacles are surmountable, or at least they were 300+ years ago. I think the low string on that one was DD. I think the C extension idea is sort of wierd. Originally C extensions were adaptations so that basses constructed without the extra string could play those parts. To have one custom made with a C extension from the outset just seems, well, for lack of a better word, backward. But if that is what propells your boat, go for it.

godoze · #9 06-02-2005, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

So where were you guys when we were discussing the SEVEN string DBs made by that fellow at allbasse.com? There is also a six string violone in a museum that has a 105 cm (very 3/4 DB-ish) string length so the construction obstacles are surmountable, or at least they were 300+ years ago. I think the low string on that one was DD. I think the C extension idea is sort of wierd. Originally C extensions were adaptations so that basses constructed without the extra string could play those parts. To have one custom made with a C extension from the outset just seems, well, for lack of a better word, backward. But if that is what propells your boat, go for it.

I do not think violone's have the same dimensions as a "double bass."

Silversorcerer · #10 06-02-2005, 02:57 PM

Quote:

I do not think violone's have the same dimensions as a "double bass."

Stop philosophizing and take a look:
http://www.mdw.ac.at/I105/orpheon/Se.../playmate1.htm

I've posted this link so many times that I thought everyone had seen it by now.

godoze · #11 06-02-2005, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

Stop philosophizing and take a look:
http://www.mdw.ac.at/I105/orpheon/Se.../playmate1.htm

I've posted this link so many times that I thought everyone had seen it by now.

damn!

godoze · #12 06-02-2005, 03:42 PM

nice fretwork; guess they didn't do much tp...

godoze · #13 06-02-2005, 03:47 PM

Plus,I'll take the Thir on that site.. Nice site btw thanks for the link.

Silversorcerer · #14 06-02-2005, 04:14 PM

Sorry, Ken Smith has claimed the Thir already! He's cultivating a taste for five strings, I hear.

Pete G · #15 06-02-2005, 07:05 PM

Mario Lamarre in Montreal makes EADGC 5 strings with low C extensions. He has some photos on his website:

http://www.lamario.ca/extension.php?lang=english

As you can, one such animal also has an extension on the D string. Mario says that some guys want that to play Bach.

That man is seriously into his woodcarving...

Ashley Long · #16 06-03-2005, 12:50 PM

Remember that Violone' were strung with gut strings and will always be. Therefore the downward tension is less resulting in the instrument being able to speak more. That violone is wierd, it shouldnt have a spike really.........oh well. Ive been tempted to try steel strings on my violone but the neck (in terms of thickness not width) is quite thin so Im wary of the tension problems, ie: neck snap.

A low C extension on a 5 string tuned EADGC would be a good idea. It would give you the range of a 6 string minus one note (although I hear that low B extensions exist) and the bass would be less dead in terms of acoustic speaking. Many 5 strings with a low B are not that sucessful anyway IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE(exculding paul of course!

) due to the amount of pressure on the top of the bass. However 5 strings with a high C tend to be brighter. But thats easy enough to fix, just use a string with darker and warmer qualities like the pirastro flexocors.

Ashley Long · #17 06-03-2005, 02:49 PM

This is how a violone should be played:
http://www.violadagamba.com/images/violone3.jpg
The one on the other link has been modifed at some point.
As regards to thump position, for violone it was rare, but not unkown........

Silversorcerer · #18 06-03-2005, 11:32 PM

Ashley,

You mentioned the lowered tension of the gut strings allowing a violone to speak more. Do you think that this would also work with a five string DB? I'm not having problems with the response on my instrument but I've been thinking about gut a bit and wondered if you might have experienced the same benefit with your DB using gut strings.

Ashley Long · #19 06-04-2005, 08:21 PM

Hi Silver,
I have never used gut strings on my upright,I use the bow a lot and its not really practical.

This could work but could have two problems:
1)I have never seen a low b gut string
2)If you wanted good bowing results then forget it! Gut strings are horrendously difficult to bow. On the plus side though, gut strings have a beautiful pizzicato sound, very warm, however,gut strings are very expensive soit could be a costly experiment even if you could find a manufacturer that makes a gut low B.

Silversorcerer · #20 06-05-2005, 04:43 AM

A fellow named Damien makes some gut strings for violones that might be useful for the BB string if I decided to try them all the way across. It is designed for the DD, but if I used the heaviest gauge, the 80, it might work because my strings are actually 109 as opposed to 105cm. I'd end up with somewhat reduced tension, something like a half step from what the string would be tuned to DD at 105cm.

I take it from what you are saying that you have gut strings on a violone, but do not use a bow with it? Considering your #2 statement coupled with your experience, I might put it off a bit because I do enjoy playing with the bow quite a bit even though most of my gigs are pizz.

At some point I know I'll just get too curious and have $$ at the same time and have to try it despite the expense. I'd do it a string here and there, but that wouldn't reduce the tension to the extent that a whole set would. Have you had reasonable life expectancy from the gut strings you use on the violone? Some folks here say they last, others that they die quickly.