Newbie question: new bass setup

[beausejour_boy]

Greetings all from a 57 year old double bass newbie who has been playing electric for 40+ years (occasionally stopping to eat and sleep). I just HAD to get a double bass before the arthritis gets too bad to play.

I bought an el-cheeapo ($400 + shipping) 4/4 double bass off of the internet, and have had the sound post re-set as it came out in transit. Now that I have explained a bit, I have a few questions to ask the knowledgeable people of this forum:

The string height is totally unmanageable for me. I thought that I was once again playing one of the "Sears specials" guitars from the early 60's. The height of the strings makes it so that I cannot play much beyond the 3rd note of any string but the low E.

Are there various guages of double bass strings available. This one came with some sort of very cheap flat wound strings that are of such high quality that both the D and the G broke while being gently brought up to tune. I was wondering if a lighter guage string would be better, or:

should I have a professional look at the bass to see if it is salvageable as far as being able to play it is concerned. I know from many experiences that experimenting with the bridge height of a guitar will often result in a much better playing instrument. Is it possible to have a professional lower (I would assume by shaving it down) the bridge height.

I really would like to be able to play the double bass as I accompany some fellow musicians in playing for seniors at various "old folks homes" as well as accompanying performers at gospel singing evenings. (This is beginning to sound like a resume for Heaven...).

Any information shared is going to be muchly appreciated...

Thanks and regards,

Doug

[drurb]

Welcome Doug! Well, you're not going to like what I have to say but you just found out one of the reasons why the usual advice here to stay away from el cheapos. Besides other problems, those basses usually are shipped with only the most crude of setups. Yes, it is possible to have the strings lowered to a proper height by having a luthier either carve a new bridge or carve the bridge you have. It is also likely the case that the fingerboard has not been dressed very well and that the nut will need to be adjusted. The cost of setting up this bass might be more than you paid for it. The strings you received, as you found out, are essentially worthless. You'll be spending more $$$ replacing them as well. I truly hope that, for your sake, you can get away with making your bass playable for minimal cost. You might spend $$$ getting this bass all set up only to have it implode a short while later. El cheapos just don't usually end up being el cheapo.

I have what may be a seemingly radical suggestion. If you really want to have fun playing and it is within your means, just start over. Consider the $400 a mistake and begin again with a decent bass purchased from a real luthier who will deliver the instrument fully set up with a nice set of strings. You can do this starting around $1200-$1500 or so. In the long run, you'll probably save money. If it is not within your means to do this, then I'd try to spend as little money as possible and get your bass into just-playable shape. Then save up for another.

[Andrew McGregor]

It comes down to this: all that work to make the bass playable is what the factory did not do to get the price down.

That said, do the work and you should end up with something playable, if not of wonderful quality. What the string height should be is a function of the shape of the fingerboard, so it might be cheaper to set it as low as it can go with the existing shape (presuming that's even vaguely plausible).

[wineaux]

Doug -- Welcome to the club. I started playing the upright a little less than a year ago at 51. I have a touch of arthritis, but most days playing seems to make my hands hurt a little less.

One thing you'll need to do with an upright, this one or one you trade up to, is develop a relationship with a good luthier. It shouldn't cost much to have yours checked out and get a good idea what making it playable will set you back. Drub is right -- it's probably not worth putting a lot of money into this bass to make it playable, but a couple hundred might do the trick and let you get started while you save for an upgrade.

Do yourself one other favor and take some lessons. This ain't like that other thing you've been playing all those years, and learning good technique and form can go a long way toward preventing injury.

Good luck, and happy thumping!

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Andrew McGregor

It comes down to this: all that work to make the bass playable is what the factory did not do to get the price down.

That said, do the work and you should end up with something playable, if not of wonderful quality.

I disagree. Basses that are sold on the internet for $400 or so are not near the quality of those delivered by real luthiers in the price range of $1200-1500. Even after a good setup, they are virtually never instruments of "wonderful quality." Rather, what you end up with is a decent setup on what is often a poor-sounding and troublesome instrument. It's poor economy.

Originally Posted by Andrew McGregor

What the string height should be is a function of the shape of the fingerboard, so it might be cheaper to set it as low as it can go with the existing shape (presuming that's even vaguely plausible).

As low as possible without buzzing may not be very low at all if the fingerboard was not dressed well.

[Fuzzball59]

Greetings from someone who's been down this road.
(All you luthiers out there might want to quit reading here---don't say I didn't warn you. I am about to relate a DIY set up story.)

My well-meaning but sweetly naive wife took it upon herself to buy me a double bass. She went to ebay and forked over $400.
It arrived as quite simply no more than a "bass shaped object". The bridge was the wrong size entirely, the neck was almost the size of a baseball bat (the thick end), the strings were junk, the end pin jammed and it was a horrible orange color.
I called around and couldn't get a luthier to look at it, they being correct in saying it wasn't worth paying someone to work on.
But my experience in finish carpentry and furniture refinishing and building allowed me to appraise the basic construction of it and I must say it seemed to be built to withstand a bomb blast. Everything wooden on it seemed extra heavy duty and well assembled.
So after some soul searching I decided, what have I got to lose? So I used it as my own personal set-up laboratory. I read everything I could find about set-ups and the mechanics of the instrument. I knew that it would never really have a nuanced sound, so I approached it as a bass-note-producing-machine and addressed myself to the mechanics required to produce ease of playing and a clean sound.
Stuff I did: Shaved and reshaped the neck. Sanded and refinished the fingerboard. Replaced and fitted a new bridge. Replaced the strings. Shaped and regrooved the nut. Replaced the tailpiece and tail gut and refitted the endpin assembly.

(Luthiers: I warned you not to read this!)

My investment in parts was about $225. My labor I can't begin to estimate, but it sure was fun and educational and extremely satisfying because what I ended up with was an easy to play, decent sounding thumper in a horrible orange /red finish----I drew the line at investing in refinishing the body.

And my wife felt much better about the whole thing too.

So I guess my advice is, if you can do it yourself you might come out ahead. I did.

Fuzz

[accutone]

Originally Posted by drurb

That said, do the work and you should end up with something playable, if not of wonderful quality.

I disagree. Basses that are sold on the internet for $400 or so are not near the quality of those delivered by real luthiers in the price range of $1200-1500. Even after a good setup, they are virtually never instruments of "wonderful quality." Rather, what you end up with is a decent setup on what is often a poor-sounding and troublesome instrument. It's poor economy.
QUOTE]


+1 in support of drurb's comments. If you can, start over. Sell the bass locally for whatever you can and move on. Don't waste your time or (any more) money.

[Bass]

Originally Posted by Andrew McGregor

...That said, do the work and you should end up with something playable, if not of wonderful quality...

Hey folks, I think Mr. McGregor meant to say that the bass should be playable BUT not wonderful quality.

Please forgive his english, no need for a debate here.

[MingusAmongUs]

Originally Posted by Bass

Hey folks, I think Mr. McGregor meant to say that the bass should be playable BUT not wonderful quality.

Please forgive his english, no need for a debate here.

+1, that's how I read it too: "though not of wonderful quality, the bass should be at least playable"

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by Fuzzball59

Stuff I did: Shaved and reshaped the neck. Sanded and refinished the fingerboard. Replaced and fitted a new bridge. Replaced the strings. Shaped and regrooved the nut. Replaced the tailpiece and tail gut and refitted the endpin assembly.

(Luthiers: I warned you not to read this!)

My investment in parts was about $225. My labor I can't begin to estimate, but it sure was fun and educational and extremely satisfying because what I ended up with was an easy to play, decent sounding thumper in a horrible orange /red finish----I drew the line at investing in refinishing the body.

And my wife felt much better about the whole thing too.

So I guess my advice is, if you can do it yourself you might come out ahead. I did.

Fuzz

Why would luthiers get offended by your post? I applaud you for using your skills and taking the initiative. And I'm happy you now have a playable instrument. Many luthiers (including myself) will not even consider working on the ebay specials, so don't feel bad.

[Fuzzball59]

I suppose I'm a bit defensive because of other posts I've read on TB (can't cite specifics, but they're out there) regarding reactions to amateur's attempts to set up or modify their own instruments.

Anyway, I can tell you understand where I'm coming from---I had nothing to lose in working on my ebay special and what I actually gained was more than just a decent playing instrument---I gained experience and understanding and along the way, respect for the luthier's craft (and his expensive specialized tools )

[jfv]

Originally Posted by Fuzzball59

I suppose I'm a bit defensive because of other posts I've read on TB (can't cite specifics, but they're out there) regarding reactions to amateur's attempts to set up or modify their own instruments.

Anyway, I can tell you understand where I'm coming from---I had nothing to lose in working on my ebay special and what I actually gained was more than just a decent playing instrument---I gained experience and understanding and along the way, respect for the luthier's craft (and his expensive specialized tools )

So you got a crafting project. The point of scads of postings
here in the FAQs is that buying these ebay 'bass like objects'
is a bad idea. You will not get your money's worth in the
end.

Most people do not have the skills to do what you did,
nor would they want to. If you follow the advise of the
experienced members here you will get a bass, that you
can play immediately because it was actually setup by
an expert.

But there's this endless line of noobs that have some
aversion to going to a store, or finding a teacher first,
and instead they want to sit in front of their computer
and order something from ebay, after all they did it
for that $200 dollar guitar.... right??

Sigh...

[Fuzzball59]

"So you got a crafting project. The point of scads of postings
here in the FAQs is that buying these ebay 'bass like objects'
is a bad idea. You will not get your money's worth in the
end. " -jfv

Part of the process of educating myself to do the work I've described involved spending a lot of time searching and reading threads on Talkbass. Out of a sense of gratitude for the information gained, today I reached out to another "noob" in a position similar to that which I was in. The point of my reply was to offer a possible solution to his problem, one which worked for me. If it worked for me it could work for him. Who knows? Not me. Do you?

I'm not certain what the point of your reply is other than to make "noobs" feel foolish --- perhaps you could reference earlier replies in this thread by drurb, arnold schnitzer, Andrew MacGregor and wineaux for examples on constructive comments. I mean, the guy is asking for help with a problem. It was already suggested that he just write it off to experience---can you say your reply contributed something more to that possible solution?

As far as my "crafting project" goes, that instrument, after refurbishment, ended up effectively launching me into a new and extremely satisfying musical journey. I took lessons with it. I learned to read bass clef, and play with a bow. I play in a string group that meets weekly and performs several times a year. Last Christmas I was invited to play in the bass section of our community orchestra for their annual concert. Now I've outgrown it and I'm moving on to a better instrument. It served it's purpose and I certainly have gotten my money's worth and much more out of it and I'll continue to enjoy playing it on Sundays at the church I've donated it to.

[emoterply]

Good luck in getting your ebay special setup...I am also a double bass newbie who is converting from electric bass and consider myself lucky to have discovered a luthier, Robert Ross, in Denver that had some basses for me to look at. I was tempted to do the ebay special but managed to talk my better half into increasing my double bass budget. I just bought a beautiful 3/4 Wulter for about $2K. I have to do some creative financing and work some OT at my job. But, it is perfectly setup and as a bonus, I got to get expert advice on what to look for in a bass. Now all I have to worry about is...how to play the damn thing!!!

[Andrew McGregor]

Originally Posted by MingusAmongUs

+1, that's how I read it too: "though not of wonderful quality, the bass should be at least playable"

Precisely. Sorry, I'm from New Zealand… our dialect is a bit different from Standard Internet Californian and I sometimes forget that…

[Bass]

Ha ha ha! Standard Internet Californian.

Hey "Fuzzball", good work on fixing-up your CCB! I admire that really, and it seems like it was a rewarding project for you.

You're moving on to a better instrument - what do you have in mind?

[Fuzzball59]

Thanks Bass.
When you're looking at the looming half century mark, you start thinking that your learning opportunities might be winding down and this project taught me that ain't necessarily so. Also as a result of my experience, I felt much more qualified when it came time to shop for a new instrument. I found that at least in a rudimentary fashion I could sort of "speak the language".

Geographical isolation (5 hour drive to the nearest shop with a bass on the floor) and a new found appreciation for proper setup influenced me to work with Upton. I have a new Hybrid being built as we speak.

Disclaimer: In my previous posting, I elaborated on my humble doings only as illustration of the value I obtained from the instrument. I've no illusions that I've taken only the first few baby steps on a long journey.

[beausejour_boy]

Thanks to all that have provided constructive advice on my purchase of an ebay 4/4 double bass. To those that gave "snotty" advice, keep living in that perfect little world of yours.

I have decided that I will get the ebay special setup as well as can be expected, but I am then going to give that bass to my 21 year old son. Both he and his girlfriend were giddy with delight when I told them that they would be getting the bass. Call it planting a bass seed. He is already an electric player and is very talented at whatever instrument he plays...so hopefully I will have created a monster player here...

I am purchasing a double bass from the local Winnipeg Long & McQuade store. I have played it in the store and it plays like a dream. Of course, after attempts to play my ebay bass, 2 pieces of wire nailed to a 2x4 piece of lumber would appear to be a step up.

I drove in to the L&M store today (it is about a 1 hour drive from where I live in rural Manitoba), and my heart sank when the bass was not in its usual spot. But, the good news is that they had set it aside in order to install an adjustable bridge on it. I hope to pick it up early next week. If you see something that resembles the Northern Lights shining in the northern sky...that will just be me smiling and playing my new baby.

Thanks again for all of the positive replies. A newbie really does need a bit of support...

[bassist1962]

Hey Fuzzball, do you have any before/after pics of any sort to post?

[drurb]

Originally Posted by beausejour_boy

Thanks to all that have provided constructive advice on my purchase of an ebay 4/4 double bass. To those that gave "snotty" advice, keep living in that perfect little world of yours.

I have decided that I will get the ebay special setup as well as can be expected, but I am then going to give that bass to my 21 year old son. Both he and his girlfriend were giddy with delight when I told them that they would be getting the bass. Call it planting a bass seed. He is already an electric player and is very talented at whatever instrument he plays...so hopefully I will have created a monster player here...

I am purchasing a double bass from the local Winnipeg Long & McQuade store. I have played it in the store and it plays like a dream. Of course, after attempts to play my ebay bass, 2 pieces of wire nailed to a 2x4 piece of lumber would appear to be a step up.

I drove in to the L&M store today (it is about a 1 hour drive from where I live in rural Manitoba), and my heart sank when the bass was not in its usual spot. But, the good news is that they had set it aside in order to install an adjustable bridge on it. I hope to pick it up early next week. If you see something that resembles the Northern Lights shining in the northern sky...that will just be me smiling and playing my new baby.

Thanks again for all of the positive replies. A newbie really does need a bit of support...

Bravo! Seems like you've managed this so it is a big win all around. Yes, I did feel the positive vibes in your post. Enjoy the journey!