Newcomer and bass enthusiast here

[Brunot]

Hello there, Iam Bruno, I will be soon 16 years old and I have some question reagdring basses.

Well, I always enjoyed listening to bass, first to disco basslines, but when I was around 13 I started to get in jazz. Well, in present it´s one of my biggest interests. I started to look around double basses, as they are big, deep and just cool

Let me tell you a story that could clear this a bit. 1 year ago and some, I was playing piano 7th year and since I started to get in jazz more and more I was beginning to discover other instruments more deeper too. I liked bass and guitar very much.
I started some strumming on guitar a bit, however bass was something more attractive for me. Unforunately I was a bit scared from it, thought that it will be very hard for me.

I tried bass guitar, but it didnt suited my thoughts about it. Then I started research on double basses. I really like them,
started to look for teachers etc., but somehow the feedback
from others was "weird" so I gave up the thought about upright.

I started this year to learn guitar at my local music school. Anyways I have noticed myself listening to music with DB more and more in the past half year and usually when I was listening to track I imagined myself as the bassist not a guitarist

So I have started to think about DB again. I didnt care about others and surprisingly my family was very excited about the DB idea. I really got into this, I have been listening to DB almost everyday to see it from different "sides". So on when I was discussing basses with me, he told me that if I really like basses, I should leave the guitar and go for it. He also offered me help with it. I have respect for double bass. No frets, big, hard to master... Well It´s a challenge. But different to the past, now Iam encouraged enough to give it a try.

And so we are here in present. My guitar teacher offered me to end this year with guitar with cross-learn and possibility to take his fretless bassguitar for start to get familiar with no frets and sound working. Hes also already giving me some jazz theory special lessons that I could possibly apply to DB. Iam really thinking to switch to DB for next year. And here it comes to few questions.

1. Would a bit of playing fretless bassguitar help me in future DB journey?

2. My guitar teacher recommended me an EUB due to its portability and sound features(headphones for later evening training etc.). "It sounds also same nowadays and its cheaper too." he said. However I had to disagree on this, as I like DB mainly because of the woody character and EUB just simply wont satisfy what Iam looking for in bass. So on I tihnk classic one is better for learning and it doesnt need all those additions as EUB to sound similiar with wood one. However I would like to be corrected if Iam not right.

3. Iam looking to play jazz on DB, however Iam fan of classical music too and it wont be bad to have a play with orchestra too.(To be honest what would be epic). Here it comes to the probably biggest question. How or from who to learn?
Classical teacher in musical school? Well, that wouldnt be the best for jazz way, but I heard advices from some bassist that classical DB has nothing that I couldnt use in jazz style. So on it features arco playing. Iam just afraid that teacher maybe wont like jazz style and I will be on my own to apply jazz techniques.
Second way is jazz bassist as teacher. I have possibility to take private lessons from him. Well here Iam afraid of not complex learning. Iam afraid that maybe he could teach me how to play jazz style, but what about arco, or classical techniques? On other maybe classical one would have some parts that wont be useful in jazz, but I think this is just "sauce". I really dont know who to choose so Iam asking here.
On end, I would like to say that I would like to play both classical style and jazz too. But I dont know whats better. Playing jazz right away with post-learning of arco and classical techniques or classical study with leaning some jazz technique.

I´ve read trough beginner topics and stickies, still, I wanted to know more deeper view or advice in my case. Sorry for longer post, but I´ve wanted to write exactly like it is.
I hope I will get help here and Iam glad that I´ve found great living bass community.

Thanks for help,

B.

[Eric Hochberg]

I suggest getting bass fundamentals down with a classically oriented teacher. You'll learn the bow and proper technique so that you'll be able to play any style of music. There are more and more teachers these days familiar with both styles so someone like this would be good for you, IMO. And get a real double bass to learn on, that's what you'll be playing in the orchestra or in most jazz groups.

[darjama]

1. I played fretless for years before starting on upright, and the while playing without frets and the vibrato techniques are similar to playing on double bass, it's different enough that if your goal is playing double bass, it isn't a good place to start.

2. EUBs don't sound the same as a double bass, look in the EUB forum here, and see how many people are trying for the sound of an acoustic instrument and are falling short. However, they are easier to transport, and less of a disturbance to you family, neighbors etc when you practice. But if you want to learn classical music, EUBs are pretty universally considered unacceptable.

I'll leave your third question to others, I'm self taught. But I think the usually method is to learn classical, then work on your jazz as your technical prowess increases.

[Brunot]

Thanks for advices guys. I agree with this plan, of course, any further advice is welcome.

[Paul Barsic]

I completely agree with Eric. I have an EUB, and it nice for practicing when I'm traveling, but it's not satisfying. If a double bass is at hand, the electric just stays in the closet. The amount of money you would spend on an EUB is less than a double bass, but it's still a significant amount of money. I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a compromise. What about renting a double bass?

If you are not happy with a bass guitar, then a fretless bass just won't do it for you. Maybe it will help you with ear training. Since your teacher is willing to lend one to you and teach you some theory, take advantage of that. It's a good use of your time.

Playing in an orchestra is good for you. It's also a lot of fun. If you get the opportunity, do it.

Finally, who are you listening to? If you haven't discovered it already, then I suggest that you listen to Bill Evans "Sunday at the Village Vanguard".

[Brunot]

Thanks for tip Paul, great music. Well, most of time Iam listening to NHOP and Ron Carter, but I like to listen to Ray Brown, Charles Mingus, Christian McBride, John Clayton,George Mraz...

I cant wait for upcoming jazz days in my city, George is coming too so it will be even more enjoyable. At the moment Iam listening to lots of jazz as my teacher recommended that to me too.

[ThumpPlunkJunk]

Originally Posted by Brunot

1. Would a bit of playing fretless bassguitar help me in future DB journey?

It would only complicate things, I think. The distances are different and the bass is a viol, not a guitar. They're not played the same way and not much on a bass guitar, even fretless, would help you on the upright. The pizzicato on a bass guitar is different than an upright pizz, and the arco on the guitar is...well, non-existent.

2. My guitar teacher recommended me an EUB due to its portability and sound features(headphones for later evening training etc.). "It sounds also same nowadays and its cheaper too." he said. However I had to disagree on this, as I like DB mainly because of the woody character and EUB just simply wont satisfy what Iam looking for in bass. So on I tihnk classic one is better for learning and it doesnt need all those additions as EUB to sound similiar with wood one. However I would like to be corrected if Iam not right.

I throw my red flag at this teacher of yours. Yeah, portable and has sound features--but again, the bass is a viol, not a guitar. It's not meant to sound like a guitar, it's not played like a guitar and honestly I think electrics are just poorer in quality than acoustics.

Not to mention, you'd need an amp, you'd never be able to play it in an orchestra at school (or anywhere else) and I don't think it would do any good for learning.

Stick with the acoustic--you've got the right idea.

3. Iam looking to play jazz on DB, however Iam fan of classical music too and it wont be bad to have a play with orchestra too.(To be honest what would be epic). Here it comes to the probably biggest question. How or from who to learn?

Generally speaking you need to learn the basics of one before you learn the other--often classical is first. At least that's how I've learned and am still learning it. First classical music, and once I've gotten a good understanding of how to play and of music itself I incorporated more jazz.

The bass isn't like the guitar. You don't need to pick a genre and stick to it. You'll find it difficult to do that, actually.

Classical teacher in musical school? Well, that wouldnt be the best for jazz way, but I heard advices from some bassist that classical DB has nothing that I couldnt use in jazz style. So on it features arco playing. Iam just afraid that teacher maybe wont like jazz style and I will be on my own to apply jazz techniques.

Many classical bass teachers also teach jazz bass. It's a huge part of the bass' repertoire.

If you can't get lessons from one teacher, go to another one who teaches both.

Second way is jazz bassist as teacher. I have possibility to take private lessons from him. Well here Iam afraid of not complex learning. Iam afraid that maybe he could teach me how to play jazz style, but what about arco, or classical techniques? On other maybe classical one would have some parts that wont be useful in jazz, but I think this is just "sauce". I really dont know who to choose so Iam asking here.
On end, I would like to say that I would like to play both classical style and jazz too. But I dont know whats better. Playing jazz right away with post-learning of arco and classical techniques or classical study with leaning some jazz technique.

Learn both.

Again, find a good teacher to teach you both styles. As you learn one of them it'll supplement the other.

[Lesfunk]

I am experienced at Bass Guitar and a non player of double bass. From My experience I would agree that if Classical and Jazz bass is your passion, you will be best served by learning traditional technique on a wood bass.
You can always apply your experience to an EUB or BAss Guitar in the future if you wish.

[Brunot]

Thanks guys for great replies. Iam getting more sure in my decision. Iam looking for teacher classical teacher that is up to jazz too atm and discussions with bassists. Regarding the instrument, I´m definately up for the classic wood bass, however I see it for rented bass at start. Clearing out the fretless idea helped me too. Thanks again for replies, still, any advice would be handy.


EDIT: Seems like I got something. After talking about this with my piano teacher, I got contact on local bassist in connected musical school. Hes a bit older guy, still playing live, classical teacher with good education and hes a jazz enthusiast too. So Iam defying our meeting atm. Seems really good.

[Brunot]

Update from me:

Well, the teacher was different as I thought. I was warned about his "other activities" that came out in result that he actually cares more for his private jobs than official one in musical school. He never called me again after the meeting.

However, I couldnt give it up so I contacted my friend in local philharmony orchestra and FORTUNATELY we found one. Hes the double bass principal in the orchestra, very serious and nice as I already met him and had a few beginning lessons. Iam very happy as it seems I finally found the first pointer in this journey.

Hes luckily one of the best players around here which is nice.
Well, I hope I will be able to start proper practicing soon with schedule.

[Andrew McGregor]

Excellent, with that kind of foundation you'll do well.

[Brunot]

I hope same, now it's time to work hard though!

I would like to say thanks to guys for keeping me in "Classical track" too. I think it wont hurt my possible jazz playing.

[Jason Sypher]

I think your attitude is stellar. Get into those classical lessons, the principal is going to take you far. It will seem like slow learning at first but don't worry, things will begin to click and you will be all over the fingerboard in no time. Continue your deep listening. Focus on what moves you most...is it Charlie Haden...is it Scott LeFaro? Just thinking about what you like will help you find your sound later on. Find yourself a bass, I think a Shen is a great value. Turn that family support into a plan to get an instrument. Use your teacher to find the best deal for you. Think used, not new, for the best deal. Where do you live?

[Brunot]

Well, regarding new instrument, as I live in Slovakia, the best deals around are Strunals, from the Czech Strunal company. Best prices, best avaibility when compared to trades abroad. So on, service is pretty good too here for these.
So I believe we will pick one of those later, if something else wont pop up. From what I heard, they are pretty nice instruments though.

Thanks for nice compliment too, hah. Well, I would say that Iam really into Ron Carter and NHOP. Charlie Haden is great with his solo concepts. Gotta love John Patitucci aswell. Iam trying to discover more players and styles to keep myself "in shape" anyways.
And yeah, Iam kind of feared if I will get used to that, it doesnt look very nice now, but I hope it will come with practice as you say.

Actually, Iam living with just my mother, but her support in my acitivities is really amazing. Iam sure that if we consider with teacher its time to move and buy, I will get money support and just that support.

[Brunot]

Well, had my first "serious" bass lesson today. Must say that its harder than it looks! Posture, bow...

Well, I liked it anyways and it just made me more confident that I choosed well, hah. Teacher said I didnt do bad, expected myself to do worse. Well, it will be harder and harder, but Iam glad to be learning such nice instrument.

I just hope I will be able to rent bass soon, as all are taken from sources Iam aware of.

[Jason Sypher]

We've all had first lessons and, at best, they are all first lessons from here on out. Wade on in, the waters fine!

[Andrew McGregor]

Don't expect them to get harder, they don't really... there will be a few early ones that feel pretty hard on your body, but otherwise they should stay about the same in terms of difficulty.

[jumbosilverette]

I'm vicariously enjoying Brunot's bass odyssey. Good luck to you, you sound like a guy who knows how to get what you want. Also, good suggestions from the other posters.

[powerbass]

I am a beginner DB player as well, just started lessons with a very good classical/jazz player. My initial interest is jazz but after a few months of Simandl practice I am very interested in learning to play classical music - I can see that studying classical and playing jazz is an ideal approach. Good luck to you and enjoy your studies!

[Brunot]

Thanks for nice comments guys. Good luck to you aswell powerbass

Today, my old teacher called me(after 4 months of none contact) like nothing happened, and if we should start.

Iam going to see him tommorow to discuss some thingys,
however Iam already convinced with the "principal teacher" and we made a "deal". But mabye, something worth could come from this one too as I will able to start my constant lessons somewhere after 3 months.

I even thought about giving him a chance, but seriously I cant imagine studying and learning with someone that didnt care to give a call to enthusiastic student waiting for his first lesson for 4 months. It smells. Everything is worth try anyways, eh?