Not Sure What I Just Bought: Engelhardt S1 (Not ES1)

michaeln · #1 10-27-2010, 03:18 PM

As a long time electric bass player who played standup for only about a year in the early 2000s, I recently decided I wanted to learn the old upright and play some bluegrass. I started looking around and found an Engelhardt ES1 on Craigslist. Went over to look at it and lo and behold it isn't an ES1 after all. It is a kind of honey blonde color, and the label inside says:

Engelhardt
Made in USA
Model: S1
Serial Number: 72495

It seemed in super condition. The guy selling it was the original owner and had never played it much, it just sat in a bag (a cheap Glaesel one, but it was free to me) for "a LONG time". For the bass, a stand, and the bag and a cheap bow, $1000. I think that's a decent deal. It seems playable and has a good thump.. I suspect the strings are as old as the bass, but it sounds OK, especially for learning.

I wrote to engelhardtlink with the info, hoping to find out more about this bass... they guy I bought it from thinks it is some kind of transitional model from around the time Engelhardt took over from Kay, but it doesn't look old enough for that to me.

Anyway, pictures:

Jason Sypher · #2 10-27-2010, 04:34 PM

I'd say you bought a pristine plywood bass!

michaeln · #3 10-27-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

I'd say you bought a pristine plywood bass!

Well, it looks pretty good to me. I discovered too that I still have five instructional VSH tapes from Marshall Wilborn (Murphy Method, she's cute!) and Mark Schatz, so I started working along with the Wilborn stuff this afternoon. Sounds pretty good.

Jason Sypher · #4 10-27-2010, 04:43 PM

Looks like it needs a professional set up as best I can tell.... Mark is a friend of mine and a great player.

michaeln · #5 10-27-2010, 04:47 PM

I'm really curious about how old it is though.

MollyKay · #6 10-27-2010, 04:48 PM

Well…this is a very nice bass and pretty too!

I am no expert on Engels but it looks like an upper model. If it is a transitional bass from a Kay to an Engel the serial number is too high. The characteristics that make it an Engel and not a Kay is the Engel’s have no outer rib lining (Kay’s do), the tuners are not Kluson, the scroll is not carved like the Kay S-1 and the fingerboard does not appear to be ebony. My best guess is you have a very nice, well cared for late model Engelhardt bass. With a serial number they should be able to identify the year and model number.

The Engelhardt serial number database published on the web says it should be a 1997-1998…that looks and sounds about right.

Again very pretty bass. Nice wood, nice color, great first bass. Enjoy!

KUNGfuSHERIFF · #7 10-27-2010, 06:02 PM

I agree with Mary. I recently played an EM1 from 1998 that looked very much like your bass except for some minor finish differences.

I'm no expert but I've heard people who know more than me say that Engelhardt uses or doesn't use the "E" prefix seemingly at random. Whatever the story is I wouldn't make too much of it.

If another $500 or so for a full professional setup isn't in the cards right now, nylon strings would be playable with the action like that. The stock bridge and solid wire tailgut aren't doing the bass any favors, but at least the former owner got rid of the "shipping strings" that came on the bass. Do your strings have purple silk on the pegbox end?

michaeln · #8 10-27-2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KUNGfuSHERIFF

If another $500 or so for a full professional setup isn't in the cards right now

I do intend to take it to a luthier for a setup. I am aware of the luthier listing on Bob Gollihur's site, but it's really just a list, and I would like to find recommendations on someone preferably in San Francisco, or at least close by.

Quote:

The stock bridge and solid wire tailgut aren't doing the bass any favors

Hopefully those will go when I get the setup done.

Quote:

Do your strings have purple silk on the pegbox end?

No, they are yellow, blue, green and grey windings up there. Is that D'Addario Helicores, maybe?

KUNGfuSHERIFF · #9 10-27-2010, 07:35 PM

Super Sensitives, the Hyundai of orchestral strings according to some. That action is brutal. Careful not to beat your tendons up too badly or you'll be stopping at the doctor's on your way home from the luthier's.

Pretty fiddle. Welcome to the family.

michaeln · #10 10-27-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KUNGfuSHERIFF

Super Sensitives, the Hyundai of orchestral strings according to some. That action is brutal. Careful not to beat your tendons up too badly or you'll be stopping at the doctor's on your way home from the luthier's.

Pretty fiddle. Welcome to the family.

Yeah, the action is nasty at the nut and uglier and uglier as I go up the neck.

I have emailed Steve Swan in Burlingame California and Alex Friedman in South San Francisco asking about their setup services. No sense in hurting myself with this thing!

fdeck · #11 10-27-2010, 09:41 PM

Perhaps the bridge is of OK quality but just too high. In that case, a cost saving option might be to have bridge adjusters installed on the existing bridge.

It's sure a nice looking bass. Enjoy!

michaeln · #12 10-28-2010, 03:49 PM

Well, I'm going to be selling this bass. Took it to a local bass luthier this morning and I'd have to dump too much money into it to get it in the shape I'd want.

I bought a Shen SB90 (blonde) from Steve Swan today. Nicely set up by Jeff Sahs and it plays great and sounds terrific.

Yes, I am a flake.

SRT80 · #13 10-28-2010, 05:07 PM

What's all wrong with the bass? I guess I mean, what all needs to be done to make it playable?

Steve

michaeln · #14 10-28-2010, 05:31 PM

Nothing seriously wrong, but it has all the problems an Engelhardt or Kay that has never been set up properly has. It would be a great bass for someone who does their own setup work... a new bridge, a fresh set of strings and reworking the nut would make it very playable. The luthier confirmed the neck scoop is done properly, and it has German tuners (that surprised him) and it is cosmetically and structurally very good. I just don't want to put the money into it he was asking.

Paul New · #15 10-29-2010, 11:53 PM

Those Weber kettles are very nice, and Hyundai actually builds an excellent auto these days.

saltydog · #16 11-01-2010, 09:42 PM

I have one just like it. You couldn't have a better starter bass. From all my research and discussion group visits i would say that this bass will be considered the "sleeper' of the decade. It is waaaaaay more bass than anyone thought it would be.
You won't need anything more for any type of playing until you decide to go way up the scale to a carved bass. String types and setup make a big difference, but even the basics are great.

Maxvla · #17 11-01-2010, 10:05 PM

Nice condition, but as you found even the best Engelhardts are in need of repair right out of the bag. They are notorious for bad quality maple in the necks leading to easy snapping and warping. They are a step above most of the cheapy trash out there like Palatinos, Beyers, and so forth, but not by much.

Pleased to see you got a Shen SB90. I think it is by far the best bass for the money right now. There are occasional fingerboard scoop issues with the lower model Shens, but that is something that should be fixed by the shop before a customer ever sees it. If you ever get upgrade pangs, the SB200 in willow is beautiful and puts out some serious volume. I tend to prefer it bowed to plucked, however.

dlargent · #18 11-01-2010, 10:10 PM

My engelhardt s-1 is from '97 and looks just like yours. Enjoy it!

michaeln · #19 11-04-2010, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlargent

My engelhardt s-1 is from '97 and looks just like yours. Enjoy it!

I sold it a couple days ago and am moving along with the Shen, which I am really enjoying.

#20 11-04-2010, 04:45 AM

A friend (I haven't spoken with in 15 years) has worked for EL since the early 80s... He has a hand in building basses and cellos... I know very little about them otherwise... But I thought they were further up the "food-chain" than what was mentioned here. Seems their "cheap" line is aimed at schools. But they have some beauties too. Always wanted one... It's just too expensive to ship from Chicago to L.A.