IN A NUT SHELL...USA PLYWOOD OR CARVED CCB?

Vin Dirnt · #1 07-06-2009, 09:30 PM

ok talk bass double bassers,
I am now deciding between 2 basses. I am in my schools jazz band and have a band of my own and want to buy a double bass. I am on a low budget and need to make the best decision. my first choice is a plywood bass from Ifshin violins, (a pretty prestigious little shop that sells only string instruments.) it has a good tone and they back up their product so if anything went wrong id be able to bring it back with no problems. with good strings and polished up with no cracks or holes just the bass, no cover, bow, or pickup is $500. then there’s the Palatino vb-004, or "crack-resistant bass" its carved as appose to plywood but made in china a 'ccb', I believe you call them. my bass teacher says that I should rather get a carved because it’ll sound better, but with Palatino’s reputation, I don’t think it will last as long and its being bought from an individual owner, but is new in the box. the bass, with a bow and a case is $650. now I don’t have a problem with buying the pickup and case, so what are some good brands that are cheep and reliable for the those, I don’t care about the bow. and what should I buy, the cheep Chinese bass or the plywood one with more backup in case something goes wrong?

Dogbertday · #2 07-06-2009, 09:43 PM

I would get the Palatino pending the reasoning behind why the current owner is selling it... having a case & bow is worth it

Gearhead43 · #3 07-06-2009, 10:22 PM

Don't get a CCB, and a Palatino is a CCB.

I would get the plywood, but what is it exactly?

catty · #4 07-06-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin Dirnt

my first choice is a plywood bass from Ifshin violins, (a pretty prestigious little shop that sells only string instruments.) it has a good tone and they back up their product so if anything went wrong id be able to bring it back with no problems. with good strings and polished up with no cracks or holes...

This appears to be a "sure thing"-- if it didn't work well for you, the dealer sounds like they would eventually get you into an instrument you'd be satisfied with. Buying from a reputable local dealer is the most valuable resource in this equation. Doesn't sound like the CCB is set-up.

Vin Dirnt · #5 07-06-2009, 10:56 PM

the plywood dosent have a brand but i think i will get that one, i just was wondering what the most logical decision is and is the palatino should even be considered. the palatino is set up however but i checked with the dealer and it has no bow. the plywood is set up too

drurb · #6 07-07-2009, 07:19 AM

Palatino, "carved," "crack-resistant." No two of those terms go together at all!

As for the ply, perhaps you can give more details. Pics might be nice too if you can swing it. The price is certainly low-- so low that it makes one wonder about the quality. If it's the case, however, that they're offering you an older, well-built, well set-up ply then you might have found a great deal. Hard to say. Then again, the dealer is local and will back it up-- two big pluses.

D McCartney · #7 07-07-2009, 07:45 AM

Hi Vin,
Welcome to the upright Bass.
The Palatino VB-004 is a plywood bass. Many of them come apart within a couple of years. But some do not. Roll of the dice.
Dwight

**Damon Rondeau** · #8 07-07-2009, 08:49 AM

I seriously doubt whether that Palatino is in fact a carved-top bass. At that price? Even if it is, it could only be ultra-cheap and/or green wood that was "carved" using an automated machine of some sort...

The thing about any CCB, though (and I think anything marketing for less than a grand almost certainly falls into the CCB category) is that the chances of it imploding in a more-or-less disastrous way -- neck joint coming apart; plates and ribs coming apart; bass bar coming out -- are very high. The question you should ask yourself has nothing to do with tone. Rather, it is "can I accept and manage that risk?"

I have some actual experience in this area of living and dealing with a CCB. Because of that, I don't like them, but also because of that I'm not instant knee-jerk death on the idea of starting out on a CCB. In the long run, it will surely give you grief, but in the long run you'll also be a better player who will understand more about getting ahold of a more appropriate instrument. You might not like the idea of a $500 object being disposable, but that's exactly what CCB's are. In the double bass world, $500 isn't even three sets of strings. It's expensive: get used to that!

Check, check and quadruple check whether that Palatino has a carved top (the thing your teacher is encouraging you to get). I'll bet it doesn't. An regardless of whether it does or not, chances are very good it will experience a disastrous failure sometime within the first few years of owning & operating. When you're in that position, you will seriously regret not having a local expert next to you, standing by the product they sold you. The Cremona I started with -- and very soon blew out to a rockabilly pal who beat the **** out of it every night -- certainly gave me grief. I'm an experienced woodworker who managed all the repairs myself at little dollar cost, but I cursed every wasted moment repairing the damned thing.

drurb · #9 07-07-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

...In the long run, it will surely give you grief, but in the long run you'll also be a better player who will understand more about getting ahold of a more appropriate instrument.

True, but, as I'm sure you'd agree, there is no virtue in such suffering and there are more fruitful, less aggravating, and less expensive paths to the understanding and appreciation of a better instrument.

**Damon Rondeau** · #10 07-07-2009, 09:33 AM

There's also a little bit of tragedy in holding off getting started because you're afraid of starting with something less than ideal. That's not the situation of the OP as I understand it, but I feel the need to make the point... There are all kinds of excellent players out there who started on highly ignoble instruments (probably not so many on DB than other instruments, but still...)

CCBs are crappy basses, for sure. Don't buy one if you don't have to. Who has to? Somebody in the boonies who's itching to get started and refuses to accept roadblocks in getting started. Is it a total waste of money if, let's say, three years down the road you've got it together to do better for yourself and your bass-playing career? I say not. You're three years ahead of the guy who saved his pennies and then made a big trip to some centre where you can do the right thing, play a bunch of basses, etc....

As always, you gotta decide for yourself. I think if the OP has got a decent alternative to the CCB, by all means he should steer clear of the CCB. Somebody in BumCrack, North America, who's dying to get started and whose local music store -- 100 miles away in the local centre of Elbow Joint -- only has a CCB? Get the CCB already! Just don't have any illusions it's anything but disposable.

drurb · #11 07-07-2009, 10:14 AM

Well said and I agree with every word of what you said. There are certainly situations in which a CCB is the only reasonable alternative to not playing at all. I think those situations are actually few and far between but, yes, they do exist. I suspect that the vast majority of sales of CCBs are to newbie players who, if they knew the lay of the land, would not choose to make that purchase.

Doing a reasonable search for a used instrument and even spending more on a bass (even mail-ordered) that already has a good setup is, of course, a better option. Now, if the budget just won't allow it that's one thing. I'm guessing that if many of the newbie buyers knew that the $600 CCB really costs $800-900 with a good setup and it would still be at risk for implosion, might just choose to spend $1200 on an instrument they could keep and that would be more reliable.

catty · #12 07-07-2009, 12:28 PM

[quote=Vin Dirnt;7636292]...the palatino is set up.../QUOTE]

In your OP, you mentioned the Palatino is "new in the box."

Vin Dirnt · #13 07-07-2009, 02:38 PM

thankyou to all, ive decided since the palatino's are def not worth it and i have more cover if the plywood breaks down im getting that, i tried it out the other day and i got a pic of me playing it, here it is

what is a low cost case for it? i want to spend under 100 dollars, somewhere around 50 will be nice
i dont care for the best wuality as long as it keeps it from getting scratched or dusty

Marcus Johnson · #14 07-07-2009, 02:48 PM

The dirt cheapest one I've seen online is the "Bellafina" bag, about 70 bucks. A few different places carry them. I wouldn't expect much longevity at that price.

AMJBASS · #15 07-07-2009, 02:53 PM

Upton has a decently priced gig bag that would definitely do the trick. For a bit more you could look at Bob Gollihurs gig bags. They are very nice quality for the money. I used to own one but sold it with a bass.

I think you made a good call on the Plywood. If set up well, they can be very good gigging basses. A well set up plywood can be much better than a cheaply made carved bass. And if you ever want to upgrade down the road, its always nice to have a plywood backup in case of poor gig conditions(weather, places where there is a higher risk of damage etc). Good luck!

catty · #16 07-07-2009, 03:20 PM

Is that a 3/4 size bass? It looks small to me..

btw...good choice.

Vin Dirnt · #17 07-07-2009, 03:26 PM

it is a 3/4 im just pretty tall and i didnt raise it up at allthe first "fret" would have been around my chin if i stood up strait

Buogon · #18 07-07-2009, 04:37 PM

RondoMusic has one for around $100 bucks , can't state the quailty, it looks ok for that bass, i just don't like the pink stripe on it.

SLivinghouse · #19 07-08-2009, 11:13 AM

You made the right choice. Ifshin violins has a good reputation and has been around a while.

I've bought an electic bass in the past from Rondo and it was well made. In the EB forums they have a good reputation for bang fior the buck. Got to agree with the pink racing stipe comment.

RobertUI · #20 07-08-2009, 11:22 AM

Wow, those rondo bags look at LOT like my Mooradian bag. I like the fact that it's got the backpack straps, that would be a big plus for me.

Oh, and I've purchased a LOT of different things from Rondo, and while some of their products are very CHEAP, they are a good group to deal with. I've had a couple EB gig bags from them that held up very well.