Opinions on Value

[bassist1962]

I have a William Lewis and Sons number 236. Brand new this instrument lists for $8k - 13k. Right now it is in need of repair. Once the repairs are done, how much would this instrument be worth? It was bought by a relative around 1960 or so. I have a friend who says that it could be worth $20k after repairs. I think they are dreaming. I believe more around $8k -12k tops. This is due to the fact that the builder and age are unknown at this point, and I have seen known age and builders going for $8k -$20k. Who is closer, or is this another 'well it depends on several factors' type of thing? Thanks.

[bassist1962]

Yes, I believe it is a commercial bass. The label says 'Made Exclusively for William Lewis & Sons Chicago, Illinois No. 236 Made in Germany. So all things considered, I believe that if I repaired this instrument, that I would get just slightly more than the cost of the repairs. My friend has the illusion that it will magicaly double in retail value. They are wanting me to sell the instrument, buy a decent ply bass, and sock the remaining money into buying a house, rather than renting as I am currently. I would love to do that, but I have a tendency anymore to live in the real world. Also I feel extremely lucky to have a decent carved instrument that just sort of fell into my lap.

[jfv]

Originally Posted by bassist1962

Yes, I believe it is a commercial bass. The label says 'Made Exclusively for William Lewis & Sons Chicago, Illinois No. 236 Made in Germany. So all things considered, I believe that if I repaired this instrument, that I would get just slightly more than the cost of the repairs. My friend has the illusion that it will magicaly double in retail value. They are wanting me to sell the instrument, buy a decent ply bass, and sock the remaining money into buying a house, rather than renting as I am currently. I would love to do that, but I have a tendency anymore to live in the real world. Also I feel extremely lucky to have a decent carved instrument that just sort of fell into my lap.

To find out what the bass is worth I would consult with a good
luthier I trusted, and dont just ask questions, take the bass to
them, they might see things you never would, and therefore
would never know to ask.

That being said, what you should do with it depends on what
your music means to you relative to priorities like a house.
Only you can answer that kind of question.

Good luck,

[Eric Hochberg]

It all depends upon the particular instrument, it's build quality, condition, and it's SOUND. It has less to do with an import label. If you fix the instrument up and it sounds fantastic and you take it to New York or Chicago to sell, you'll probably get more for it than in your area. If it's just ok sounding you won 't get as much. A really good sounding master art Juzek from the mid sixties sold for $13,000-14,000 in Chicago recently. The higher end new Wilfers are priced in that range. Your bass may or may not be of that quality, but it also has 40 years on it and it's sound may reflect that.

[bassist1962]

Originally Posted by ehochberg

It all depends upon the particular instrument, it's build quality, condition, and it's SOUND. It has less to do with an import label. If you fix the instrument up and it sounds fantastic and you take it to New York or Chicago to sell, you'll probably get more for it than in your area. If it's just ok sounding you won 't get as much. A really good sounding master art Juzek from the mid sixties sold for $13,000-14,000 in Chicago recently. The higher end new Wilfers are priced in that range. Your bass may or may not be of that quality, but it also has 40 years on it and it's sound may reflect that.

So I should ask for a set of Spiros for X-mas, and put them on? This would make it sound better in my opinion as the current strings are 30 year old student grade Supersensitive Stellars.

[Eric Hochberg]

You didn't mention what repairs are necessary, but if the bass is solid and playable, new strings couldn't hurt! You should get the sound post checked, too, assuming it hasn't been lately.

[bassist1962]

Seam repair, probably involving taking the bass apart as the back near the endpin is flush with the ribs and the rest of the bass has a lip over the ribs. The top has a crack from the bottom, about eight inches next to the tailpiece. Bridge replacement, soundpost adjustment, just 40 years of delapidation. It was restrung, and setup amaturely 30 years ago, and has had very little real playing time on it until this past summer. Funny that the person that owned this bass, used to gripe at me to take my car to a mechanic instead of letting friends work on it; But he felt that Luthiers were salespeople that were going to rip you off somehow.

[Sippy]

I have a similar William Lewis and Son bass and it will go nowhere near $20k. Mine is approx 50 yrs old.. german made.. and it's worth maybed 2k right now. William Lewis & son basses are good solid instruments. But the fact that there are 10000's of them in circulation hurts the value. Which I think is great, because all that means is you get a decent bass at a low low price.

[bassist1962]

Originally Posted by Sippy

I have a similar William Lewis and Son bass and it will go nowhere near $20k. Mine is approx 50 yrs old.. german made.. and it's worth maybed 2k right now. William Lewis & son basses are good solid instruments. But the fact that there are 10000's of them in circulation hurts the value. Which I think is great, because all that means is you get a decent bass at a low low price.

This is why my friend has the impression of high value for an older instrument. The bass is worth only a couple grand, yet the price list says $13k. Certain online stores selling this instrument have it for $8 - 10k. What gives? This is why the previous owner thought of music sales people the way he did.

[Sippy]

Well Guitar Center on ebay had a 1973 P-bass for $10k. If I could get that for my '73 I'd be loving life. The price of something isn't dependant on how much somebody will sell it for... it's how much somebody would buy it for. For instanct. My upright I got for $500! Granted I got quite the deal. But you have to remember. A bass is worth only what somebody will pay for it.. not what it SHOULD be worth. For example... When Fast and Furious came out... the price for used civics and Integras went up substantially. Because the demand went up. the reason old Fenders, and Juzeks, Wilfers etc... are high is the demand is high... Now Our basses.. there are thousands of them. Nobody really says "I want a William Lewis & son upright" ... therefore the value goes down. In all honesty.. I say any well used William Lewis & Son bass is between 1k-3k. depending on "use".

[ctxbass]

Sippy, what model # is your bass?

Lewis and Son #236 was their top of the line, fully carved bass. There is a big difference in quality between the current model #236 and the ones made in Germany in the sixties. Many of the ones made back then were Wilfer shop basses and (in good condition) should be worth around $5,000 or more.
A Lewis and Son laminated bass from the same era, while still a well made instrument, would obviously not be worth that kind of money

[bassist1962]

Mine is a 236 that was bought around 1960. Age at that point right now is unknown. I called a luthier about the repairs, and asked him about the value of the instrument. He told me that he is not an appraiser, however it is a factory generated instrument, and could be worth around $5000. He also told me that doesn't mean that someone would give me that for my bass, but that it is a much better quality than the newer Chinese basses that people are paying that kind of money for.

[Martin Sheridan]

As a bass maker and former shop owner and dealer,
I think this bass would go for around 8000 or less.
That, as always, depends on the market, the buyer and the seller and what they want to decide it is worth. Most of the Wm Lewis products aren't that good. When you consider that there are many new European and Chinese basses availabe for four to seven thousand, most of them in the lower range, it has dragged down the value of the sales prices of the fifties and sixtes basses as well as those made in the 70s on.
In my opinion those instruments went way down in quality in the mid sixties because the Germans had a lock on the market and they didn't have to make them as good. That trend continued until the Chinese started developing better instruments. In fact with basses I'm not sure the Germans have ever improved since then.
Perhaps someone who is knowledgable about the German industry can chime in. I have the feeling that most of what they are exporting now either comes from Eastern Europe or China originally and may be only varnished and set up by them or just set up and then exported, because the sales and wholesale prices on many of their instruments are priced too low based on their labor market.

[Sippy]

Originally Posted by ctxbass

Sippy, what model # is your bass?

Lewis and Son #236 was their top of the line, fully carved bass. There is a big difference in quality between the current model #236 and the ones made in Germany in the sixties. Many of the ones made back then were Wilfer shop basses and (in good condition) should be worth around $5,000 or more.
A Lewis and Son laminated bass from the same era, while still a well made instrument, would obviously not be worth that kind of money

my basses model number is 226 and the serial is 64162 I really know nothing about it except Turrock on TB has a 226 and believes his was made in Romania. A Buddy of mine says mine looks like it was made in Germany. I don't know. I'd like to get any more info on it if you have any. I haven't ben able to find info on #226 at all. Here are some pics... BTW the reason the gears are so shiny, is because they were polished at the store.

[manjonning]

I just traded my GK1001 RB II and an SWR golliath III for a 1967 236 model Bottesini..

Good deal?

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by manjonning

I just traded my GK1001 RB II and an SWR golliath III for a 1967 236 model Bottesini..

Good deal?

No pics, no deal.

[manjonning]

I'll get them up eventually .. took the photos .. just have back surgery scheduled for 4/28 so I've been scrambling to take care of needed house/yard work and my son's 2nd b-day .. They'll be up sooner than later I hope!

[Dave Irwin]

There has to be a thread somewhere discussing the drivers of the cost of a bass.
In my mind, (and locale) I think price is a matter of practical things (sound, playability, health) up to around $10,000, maybe 15. Above that, I think it's pedagree.
Age factors in any range.
If it's a shop bass, and there are a lot around, I would guess you are in the <= 15 range.
Then it's all about finding a buyer.


Good Luck,
Dave

[manjonning]

Originally Posted by manjonning

I'll get them up eventually .. took the photos .. just have back surgery scheduled for 4/28 so I've been scrambling to take care of needed house/yard work and my son's 2nd b-day .. They'll be up sooner than later I hope!

http://picasaweb.google.com/teriandj...21984637189650

http://picasaweb.google.com/teriandj...21927595571762

http://picasaweb.google.com/teriandj...21992042949474

http://picasaweb.google.com/teriandj...22038090343730

[manjonning]

Here's a few more





http://picasaweb.google.com/teriandj...22090689310642