paging MollyKay

[kurt ratering]

yesterday a nice old kay came into the shop to have its neck reglued. the serial # is 6979, which according to kaybass.com, dates it at 1940. my question is about the model. its labeled as a M-1-W. kaybass.com had a few ideas as to what the W stood for ( in the white, made for the h.n. white company, or wabash), but nothing concrete. does anyone have any other ideas? there doesnt seem to be anything special about it, construction or aesthetically.
thanks, kurt

[PaulKing]

now there is one thing missing from that post.
What could it be?

[MollyKay]

Hey Kurt,

I have not seen a Kay M-1-W in person but of course I have read Roger Stowers information may times and this one seems to still be a mystery. My only guess was the “W” showed up in the earlier years of the Kay production so I often wondered if the “W” stood for wartime production on basses made for military use…but this is only a guess. The “W” does not seem to come up in the Concert or Swingmaster models. Kay may have made the Maestro “W” model the bass of choice to support the war time efforts. The history of most instrument builders show they stopped production or greatly decreased production during 1942-1945 and switch to manufacturing items in support of the wartime efforts. The other thing is raw materials were in short supply so the “W” could stand for “wood” where a different wood was used in that bass model. I am speculating and don’t know anything concrete. Piecing together historical facts is a tedious job…but fun!

I think Mr. King wants some Kay porn photos…hint.

Oh...serial numbers are not perfect. There needs to be some "squish room" in what years the number represent.

[kurt ratering]

here she is, thanks molly

[MollyKay]

You are welcome.

I noticed the shading on this bass is a bit different. The front is shaded more like diamond and the back like an hour glass. If the finish is original (this looks to be a nice one) it deviates a bit from the norm. I’ll have to pay closer attention in the future when I see M-1-W as to how the sunburst shading was applied.

Here is my 1944 M-1…similar but slightly different.

[ctregan]

If the bass is in Boston, could the W stands for "Wicked"?

Nice looking bass.

[tomshepp]

Kurt,
My 1939 is also an M1W. Looks a lot like that one. I think there is no way to really know what the W is for.

[tomshepp]

I believe the finish on mine is original. Serial # is: 6350. A wicked cool bass.

[Mr.Ecko]

Originally Posted by MollyKay

You are welcome.

I noticed the shading on this bass is a bit different. The front is shaded more like diamond and the back like an hour glass. If the finish is original (this looks to be a nice one) it deviates a bit from the norm. I’ll have to pay closer attention in the future when I see M-1-W as to how the sunburst shading was applied.

Here is my 1944 M-1…similar but slightly different.

I have a Kay M-1, no. 7836 just like Kurt's with the diamond shading.
It's not an M-1W, but it does have an ebony finger board and tail piece.
The person I bought the bass from said his dad purchased the bass new when he
was in high school in Indiana.

[bradd]

Kurt,

The Kay that I used to own was a 1939 M1-W. The finish was consistent with other Kays that I've seen, so it does not stand for "white." Mine was purchased from a college, and the only other W I've seen came from a school as well. Maybe it was some sort of designation that it was for educational use?

[kurt ratering]

Bradd,
used to own? is that the one i remember you working on back in the day? good to hear from you buddy!

[arnoldschnitzer]

M-1-W's were factory seconds. The "W" stands for "whoops".

[xwtb]

FWIW, here's what Roger Stower's Kay Bass site (http://www.kaybass.com/) says about the W designation:

Model (M-1W) This "W" is an albatross. At first it was thought the "W" stood for white because a couple of basses were white. It was reported the "W" stood for Wabash music. Supposed they had ordered 1000 basses to be distributed to school systems. I have quite a few M-1W basses now listed that are not white and they have not been refinished. There may be a possibility the "W" stands for "in the white" or unfinished. Kay did sell some basses unfinished; however, after studying the finish on many of the M-1W basses, I believe it was factory applied. Kay also sold a few bass bodies which resulted in people adding their own features. Kay sold a few basses to Sears and Montgomery Ward which were unmarked. It is also possible they sold basses or parts of basses to other manufacturers. The "W" may also be related to the H.N. White Co. located in Cleveland, Ohio. They manufactured King and Cleveland (American Standard) basses. I think as time goes on we may see a relationship develop between these two companies, particularly having to do with interchangeable parts. The Cleveland Musical Instrument Company began in 1925 as an offshoot to King and the H.N White Co. They made band instruments including upright basses. Their products were known as "American Standard." H.N. White Co. started making musical instruments in 1893 and the brand was known as "King." King was White's associate and he invented the trombone with the trumpet valves for marching bands. King started making upright basses in 1935.

[MollyKay]

Yep, we are back to where we started…”W” stands for WHAT?

We can muse all day as to what the W stood for. It was Kay’s mean trick to torture us in the 2100 century.

So far:

White
Wicked
War
Wabash
Whoops
Wards (as in Monkey Wards)

…care to add?

[tomshepp]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

M-1-W's were factory seconds. The "W" stands for "whoops".

Thanks Arnold!

[forester]

your reading it upsidedown,it's inverted.
it's M for "Mollykay"

[xwtb]

Apologies Kurt, Molly et al. Didn't mean to be redundant. I must have come in in the middle and paged down instead of up.

[PaulKing]

This is probably a complete red herring but...
Strunal uise the letter W appended to model numbers to distinguish those with an antique 'Wash' finish. Just to add another to the list.

Ta for pics! Nice.