Pics of 100 year old bass

steve2 · #1 07-02-2007, 08:54 PM

I took pics today of the old bass that my neighbor has. As a recap my next door neighbor bought it sometime I am guessing in the 70's. Benny Sims who played fiddle for Earl Scruggs told him it was probaby 100 years old. Before the man died he had altheizmers (spell ck) and was constantly taking things apart well one day with out anyone noticing he was taking the bass apart. They hid it over a few years and after he past away the son in law who is great with wood refinished it and sent it to a LMS to have it put back together. They realized this probably hurt the value. There is no name on it. They are making me what I believe a deal of a lifetime. Our course today was the first time I have ever played a double bass. Any info you can give me will be well taken.

http://www.justpoas.com/bass2.htm

Thanks

Steve

steve2 · #2 07-02-2007, 09:02 PM

One thing I do know it was restored about 2 years ago and the bridge and strings was replaced.

Eli_Upright12 · #3 07-02-2007, 09:16 PM

WHo put it together?

steve2 · #4 07-02-2007, 09:22 PM

I dont have a name. I know they took it too one of the oler music stores in my area and usually they send their work out. However I did not speak to the son in law today but he may have put part of it. I really dont know at this time.

Eli_Upright12 · #5 07-02-2007, 09:29 PM

the bass looks really great to me but the only thing that I see that bothers me is that it looks like theres a lot of excess glue on the seem holding the top on, and it doesn't look like hide glue to me, but maybe its just a shadow thing and also Im by no means a luthier.

steve2 · #6 07-02-2007, 09:42 PM

I have just been studying these since about 2 days ago. Can you tell if its carved or ply or if its really that old. How about the size. Thanks so much for the info. Seems like I seen a place were there was some excess glue. I know on the sound clip you cannot tell that much. Its really the first time I have ever played one. If I get it I will take a few lessons to learn the proper techniques. She told me tonight that that one guy who deals in them was intrested in it and she said that he had 3 right now he was selling and said he would ask around $1,200 for it. I can get it for much less mainly because I am close to the family and I told her since I played electric bass I would not have any intentions of selling it and that meant a lot to her.

Eli_Upright12 · #7 07-02-2007, 10:23 PM

Its definitely fully carved or at least sides and top I cant see the back, you can tell by the visible grain its looks to be a pretty nice bass generally they dont put those type of tuners with ebony on inferior basses,In terms of size it looks to be about 3/4 but I can only guess from what I see of it in comparison to you, If you could measuere the length from the bridge to the nut I and alot of people would be able to tell you definitely.

I would say go for it its definitely go for it if it feels good to play and just on the fact that its problably an incredible investment.

steve2 · #8 07-02-2007, 10:28 PM

Thanks I did not realize that I did not have a photo of the back on it so I added one.

Eli_Upright12 · #9 07-02-2007, 10:57 PM

Tough to tell form that picture but I would say its fullycarved

Kevin Hsieh · #10 07-03-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

the bass looks really great to me but the only thing that I see that bothers me is that it looks like theres a lot of excess glue on the seem holding the top on, and it doesn't look like hide glue to me, but maybe its just a shadow thing and also Im by no means a luthier.

eli,
i agree with you. it's a beautiful bass, but the top is a bit sketchy. For the price you're paying for it i say it's absolutely a steal, but maybe you want to do a little more research on who put it back together and what kind of glue that is because it looks like a pretty cursory job of gluing the top on.

good luck steve
i say buy it

anon_6j591b0 · #11 07-03-2007, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

Tough to tell form that picture but I would say its fullycarved

Yep, it's pretty tough to get plywood to crack as clean as the top has on the G string side shoulder.

**Matthew Tucker** · #12 07-03-2007, 01:16 AM

What I think I can see:

Neck break seems to have been fixed with some kind of pins, and not very well. look at the crack under the chin of the scroll. Will be a weak point.

Bridge to nut measurement will tell you nothing, as it is sitting way too high, shorten the tailpiece wire heaps and set the bridge between the nicks in the FFs.

The varnish is bubbling all over the place.

The top may not have been glued on very well, and the fingerboard looks thick enough but not glued very well either.

5-layer purfling in the top and pronounced grain makes it look carved, and the deep edging on the back looks like it could be carved too, but the wood is very plain and it feels ply-ish to me. Also the wood of the back seen through the ffs looks plyish and plain. Look harder. If the grain on the back matches the grain on the INSIDE of the back, then its more likely to be carved.

look at the edge of the top and back plates. can you see the plys along the edge, or grain running through the whole thickness? latter is carved.

Scroll looks nothing special but the tuners look oldish maybe 30's, I don't know.

Even if its a ply bass it could end up nice if you spend some money on it. But it needs work.

steve2 · #13 07-03-2007, 02:39 AM

I see what you all is looking at now. I believe that is from the camera flash.

Sam Sherry · #14 07-03-2007, 07:37 AM

Good eye Matthew, as expected.

a) Based on the amount of recurve on the back, I'll guess solid wood.

b) Bad, bad refinish. Looks like it was probably sprayed and certainly not properly prepared or properly rubbed-out. Difficult and expensive to re-do so you're probably stuck with it.

c) As noted, the glue-job attaching the top potentially sketchy. If they didn't use hide glue this could be a serious problem.

d) The crack at the scroll-to-neck joint appears to be un-repaired or badly repaired and that is a question requiring an immediate answer. Couple that with a potentially sketchy repair at the other end of the neck and it could be a morass.

e) Everything Matthew said.

It's not easy to give you advice because the amount of work and money this instrument needs hinges on 1) whether the top needs to come off and 2) whether the glue used will allow that to happen without requiring an enormous amount of work.

You could be spending $1200 on an instrument which needs a modest, careful scroll re-glue and a careful setup to sound incredible behind the screen. You could be spending $1200 on an fragile, screwed-up instrument which needs $2500 worth of work to stay in one piece and will never look right or resell well. Punch line: Try to get a hands-on opinion from an experienced bassist and/or bass luthier and good luck!

musicman5string · #15 07-03-2007, 08:23 AM

I would absolutley take it to a qualified luthier and have them say whether it's 100 years old. To me, it looks like some cheap Romanian bass or something, but that could be because of the horrible refinish.
If indeed it's a 100 year old German or Czech bass, in great condition it's worth $8000-$12,000 NYM (NY Money). That bass in the pics needs alot of work to get it there, including fixing the neck crack, re-glueing the top, plus probably a new fingerboard, tailpiece, adjustable bridge, and who knows what the condition of the soundpost or bass bar is? Not to mention getting the thing refinished, which will actually bring the value down quite a bit anyway. All that work will probably cost $5000 or more. The end result will be a bass maybe worth $7000. If you pay $1200 for it you're making a $800 profit. But who knows for sure?
Only a luthier will know, and I would probably get a second opinion as well.
Good luck.

steve2 · #16 07-03-2007, 01:18 PM

I know that he bought it used in the 60's The lady beside actually is offering it to me for $450 since I am good friends with the family.

**Matthew Tucker** · #17 07-03-2007, 02:11 PM

I think, at that price take a punt, snap it up. you can always sell it again if it doesn't work out. If it is a carved bass, I you'll probably get your money back and more.

I reckon you're old enough to put the slab down for a while and get into DB

whether or not you can make it work depends on what sort of person you are and what resources you have.

If you buy it, take REALLY close pictures of the problem areas and post them here.

Kevin Hsieh · #18 07-03-2007, 02:38 PM

hey steve.

on (ALL HAIL!) bob gollihur's website i came up with these luthiers in your state... i don't know if they're near you

# TN, Nashville, George Chestnut, 615-889-6454
Repairs, setup, etc.
# TN, Nashville, Jim Ferguson Double Bass Shop, fax: 615-463-8747, click to emailjim@jimfergusonmusic.com
Setup, repair work, sells strings and accessories. Part-time
# TN, Nashville, Dustin Art Williams 615-429-2927, click to emailDustin@WilliamsFineViolins.com • click to visit luthier web siteWilliamsFineViolins.com

maybe you can go send it over and see what you can get fixed.
best of luck

steve2 · #19 07-03-2007, 03:47 PM

All of those are about 5 hour drive. A friend of mine has one and plays bluegrass said he would come over and look at it. He also noticed the crack near the headstock and said that he tought it may have been repaired perhaps not that good but it may work. I guess my main concern is if its playable. I played it but I have no idea if it is correct. I really appreciate all the advice.

anon_6j591b0 · #20 07-03-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve2

All of those are about 5 hour drive.

Well worth it. Bad repairs will cost you big time short term in the playability and long term in the value of the instrument. Sooner or later you will take it to the best luthier you can find and if he's gotta undo a bunch of bad work it'll cost you a whole lot more. You're lucky you have that many good ones only 5 hours away. I know a guy in northern Canada who travels 12+ to get his worked on.

Playing the big bass is a huge commitment in so many ways and if you don't want to start off right by doing what it takes to get a playable bass maybe it's not the right thing for you to be taking on.