Please ID this bass

[bass_snake]

http://london.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-musical-instruments-string-upright-bass-W0QQAdIdZ235467814

thanks,

Fred

[LeslieD]

Based on the shape, I'd guess it's an American Standard.

[bass_snake]

Oh wow. Thanks. That would be cool if it's indeed an American Standard. The owner doesn't know what it is.

Thanks again Leslie.

[LeslieD]

Really, that's just a guess (and not a positive ID for this bass). To me the upper bouts and F holes look a lot like what I've seen on a few American Standards. It looks like it may have been refinished, but to find out for sure you'll have to take it to a luthier in your area. Good luck!

[MollyKay]

If any one looks at this bass in person please contact me with the serial so I can catalog this bass with my research.

This is a pre-war 1940-1941 Epiphone B-1 or B-2 upright bass…and here is why.

Starting at the top…

The scroll is broad; factory carved and has the classic Epiphone “extra turn” in the scroll. It is not an American Standard as their scrolls are narrower from point to point head on. It is not a Kay as their volutes were pasted on and it is not a Kay Swingmaster with a factory carved scroll because it is the wrong body shape (gamba). All Swingmaster had factory carved scroll with the maestro body shape.

The tuners on this bass should be stamped Kluson and dark nickel plated with the five art deco lines. These are replacement German tuners. If the current tuners were removed you would find the factory drill holes from the Kluson tuners.

The nut and fingerboard appear to be replaced as both should be rosewood. The fingerboard looks like ebonized maple and was replaced at some point when this bass had a makeover (sadly it has been refinished).

The body shape is that of an Epiphone with the sloping shoulders and the classic early Epiphone FF holes. The body has been stripped of the original dark brown sunburst finish. If this bass was a B-1 it would have had a single black pin stripe. If it was a B-2 it would have a double black pin stripe. With out the tail badge to show a model number or the pin stripes I have no way to know if it was a B-1 or a B-2…my guess is a B-1 as there are more of them cataloged then B-2…2’s are more rare.

The tail piece is the original dark rosewood. It has the three small pin holes where the tail badge would have been mounted with three small brass tacks. You can faintly see the shadow of the tail badge but you can definatley see the three pin holes. Pre-war Epi’s had dark rosewood tailpieces, post war they are flamed maple, not dark rosewood. The tail piece still has the rib of tortoise like plastic, which is also iconic pre-war Epiphone. The many examples I have or have seen this plastic will crystallize and deteriorated over time. This one looks pretty good so it is most likely a late model 1941.

There is no interior serial number, paper label or model number. The die stamped three digit serial number will be on the peg box, on the E side and you need to almost stand on your head and look up to see it. You can feel it before you can see it. Rub your finger on the flat surface next to the nut on the bottom side of the peg box just below the tuner. My guess is the serial number will be there and it will be between # 400 to # 500.

Good luck to who ever buys this bass. If it had original tuners, original finish and the Epiphone tail badge I would be on it with both feet. As a player this should make a great bass with a little TLC.

Let me know if I am spot on or out in left field.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by MollyKay

If any one looks at this bass in person please contact me with the serial so I can catalog this bass with my research.

This is a pre-war 1940-1941 Epiphone B-1 or B-2 upright bass…and here is why.

Starting at the top…

The scroll is broad; factory carved and has the classic Epiphone “extra turn” in the scroll. It is not an American Standard as their scrolls are narrower from point to point head on. It is not a Kay as their volutes were pasted on and it is not a Kay Swingmaster with a factory carved scroll because it is the wrong body shape (gamba). All Swingmaster had factory carved scroll with the maestro body shape.

The tuners on this bass should be stamped Kluson and dark nickel plated with the five art deco lines. These are replacement German tuners. If the current tuners were removed you would find the factory drill holes from the Kluson tuners.

The nut and fingerboard appear to be replaced as both should be rosewood. The fingerboard looks like ebonized maple and was replaced at some point when this bass had a makeover (sadly it has been refinished).

The body shape is that of an Epiphone with the sloping shoulders and the classic early Epiphone FF holes. The body has been stripped of the original dark brown sunburst finish. If this bass was a B-1 it would have had a single black pin stripe. If it was a B-2 it would have a double black pin stripe. With out the tail badge to show a model number or the pin stripes I have no way to know if it was a B-1 or a B-2…my guess is a B-1 as there are more of them cataloged then B-2…2’s are more rare.

The tail piece is the original dark rosewood. It has the three small pin holes where the tail badge would have been mounted with three small brass tacks. You can faintly see the shadow of the tail badge but you can definatley see the three pin holes. Pre-war Epi’s had dark rosewood tailpieces, post war they are flamed maple, not dark rosewood. The tail piece still has the rib of tortoise like plastic, which is also iconic pre-war Epiphone. The many examples I have or have seen this plastic will crystallize and deteriorated over time. This one looks pretty good so it is most likely a late model 1941.

There is no interior serial number, paper label or model number. The die stamped three digit serial number will be on the peg box, on the E side and you need to almost stand on your head and look up to see it. You can feel it before you can see it. Rub your finger on the flat surface next to the nut on the bottom side of the peg box just below the tuner. My guess is the serial number will be there and it will be between # 400 to # 500.

Good luck to who ever buys this bass. If it had original tuners, original finish and the Epiphone tail badge I would be on it with both feet. As a player this should make a great bass with a little TLC.

Let me know if I am spot on or out in left field.

...and this is why Talkbass can be great at times. Molly, you rock.

[Jason Sypher]

Molly, you are the (WO)MAN! I so appreciate your passion and wealth of knowledge. We are all lucky to have you onboard.

[Matt Ides]

Giant F holes and finished neck = Epiphone

Grab it if you can. After a set-up my epiphone plays great and sounds really good pizz.

[Jake deVilliers]

Hey Molly, the Epiphone basses I have seen all had external linings but I don't see any on this bass. Are you saying that some Epis did not have the linings?

[MollyKay]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Are you saying that some Epis did not have the linings?

Absolutely!

Pre-war B-1's were manufactured with no external rib linings. And great observation Jake. I can now say this is definatley a B-1 and not a B-2.

Here is the slide show of my B-1 #461, named Gunner:

http://s318.photobucket.com/albums/m...ection=reverse

And here is his unrestored brother, my B-1 #463 named Milton:

http://s318.photobucket.com/albums/m...view=slideshow


Here is my description of a B-1 from my website:

B-1 model was first officially introduced in January 1941 (though production began in 1940) according to the Epiphone catalog it was their entry level bass. This bass has shown up six times so far in my database. All examples are dark brown in color, have one single black pin stripe and no outer rib linings. The top appears to be laminated maple (not spruce), the sides and back are a plain maple and show little or no signs of flaming. Since these basses are some of the earliest models some have lost their tail badge and can not be identified. Of the B-1’s that still have the tail badge, some have been stamped with a B1 model and others have no model number on the badge at all. All the B-1s have the serial number stamped under the scroll on the E side. The lowest serial number B-1 in my database is #257 and the highest number is #621. I have no B-1’s cataloged after #621 and it appears as if this model stopped production with the onset of WWII (end of 1941 beginning of 1942) and did not reappear when production resumed in 1946

You can read more here…

http://www.bassmonkey.net/epiphone.html

[LeslieD]

Mark me down as an idiot for IDing American basses! Thanks Molly for all your cool info!

[bass_snake]

Thanks Molly Kay. This would be a great back up bass.

I' m thinking of getting another DB.

[Matt Ides]

FYI- I know some of the epi's only have three layers of ply, which make for a light bass, but not so great for high tension heavy strings. I would say that these are not built like tanks (in case you buy). With reading Molly's info see how it sounds if it is a maple top.

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by MollyKay

Absolutely!

Pre-war B-1's were manufactured with no external rib linings. And great observation Jake. I can now say this is definatley a B-1 and not a B-2.

Here is the slide show of my B-1 #461, named Gunner:

http://s318.photobucket.com/albums/m...ection=reverse

And here is his unrestored brother, my B-1 #463 named Milton:

http://s318.photobucket.com/albums/m...view=slideshow


Here is my description of a B-1 from my website:

B-1 model was first officially introduced in January 1941 (though production began in 1940) according to the Epiphone catalog it was their entry level bass. This bass has shown up six times so far in my database. All examples are dark brown in color, have one single black pin stripe and no outer rib linings. The top appears to be laminated maple (not spruce), the sides and back are a plain maple and show little or no signs of flaming. Since these basses are some of the earliest models some have lost their tail badge and can not be identified. Of the B-1’s that still have the tail badge, some have been stamped with a B1 model and others have no model number on the badge at all. All the B-1s have the serial number stamped under the scroll on the E side. The lowest serial number B-1 in my database is #257 and the highest number is #621. I have no B-1’s cataloged after #621 and it appears as if this model stopped production with the onset of WWII (end of 1941 beginning of 1942) and did not reappear when production resumed in 1946

You can read more here…

http://www.bassmonkey.net/epiphone.html

You learn something new every day - Thanks Wendy!

[tornadobass]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Hey Molly, the Epiphone basses I have seen all had external linings but I don't see any on this bass. Are you saying that some Epis did not have the linings?

My Epi also does not have external linings. Its year is unclear, but likely about 1958. It might be the Studio BV model, but its details are somewhat inconsistent, including an Epiphone paper label inside that says NY and does not match the Gibson/Epiphone label and the SN is below the tailpiece.

[iiipopes]

Originally Posted by tornadobass

My Epi also does not have external linings. Its year is unclear, but likely about 1958. It might be the Studio BV model, but its details are somewhat inconsistent, including an Epiphone paper label inside that says NY and does not match the Gibson/Epiphone label and the SN is below the tailpiece.

Being this was during the transitional era after Gibson bought Epiphone and was assimilating production, it could be anything, even the using up of old parts.

[tornadobass]

Here's the label...nobody has mentioned seeing one like this before. I suspect old parts, possibly even a B-1 from early production that they found in moving.

[forester]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

Molly, you are the (WO)MAN! I so appreciate your passion and wealth of knowledge. We are all lucky to have you onboard.

+1
and like the new pic ms. kay.

[MollyKay]

Thanks all, for the kind words.

I love what I do, and do what I love. Helping someone ID this wayward, under appreciated vintage Epiphone is cool… and a thread killer once the mystery is gone (sorry).

Now someone go buy this great 70 year old bass and play the snot out of it!!!

Be sure to report back on the serial number for me…please.

[MollyKay]

This bass has finally turned up. The new owner purchased from a gentleman in London Ontario. It indeed is a 1941 Epiphone B-1 #583. While it is currently in poor condition he has intensions of restoring the bass to good playing condition.

Mystery solved.