Ply vs. Hybrid

skatevu · #1 06-21-2011, 02:53 PM

I know this is an easy decision for most, but i have managed to complicate my situation. Im trying to decide between a high level plwood shen and a low level hybrid. The shen is a new sb100 with a nice oil varnish and a christopher db300 hybrid. Theyre both about 1800 so if anyone has any input, all is welcome. Thanks

**Damon Rondeau** · #2 06-21-2011, 03:16 PM

I don't often get involved in this question. And I own that same Chrissie hybrid. My advice here is simple: buy the one that sounds and feels best to you. For that decision, you're not gonna find any other information here that's gonna take you decisively to one option or the other.

As for sound, it's really helpful to have another player with you. Let them play it while you sit back and assess the sound.

Eric Hochberg · #3 06-21-2011, 03:16 PM

Which one sounds better and feels better to you? The hybrid will take a little more babying, but I wouldn't let that stop you if it sounds better than the ply.

transition · #4 06-21-2011, 03:24 PM

Yep. I've been playing basses lately, and have totally experienced what I'd read here: evaluate each bass as an individual. You're not trying out a generalized "Company Model X Ply," or "Company Model Y Hybrid, you're trying out a very specific bass.

Sure, they're somewhat consistent, but you never know when an especially good or a slightly lesser one might come off the line.

Play the basses (and more than those), and see what jumps out at you.

PocketGroove82 · #5 06-21-2011, 03:29 PM

I think the decision would be pretty obvious if you actually played the two of them.

skatevu · #6 06-21-2011, 03:38 PM

I have played them both and im leaning towards the ply because of the better sound and playability, but i will be attending the nc school of music as a high school student in 2012, and i have a feeling i will get burned on a stake for showing up with a plywood bass

**Damon Rondeau** · #7 06-21-2011, 04:07 PM

First rule of life as an artist: forget about what those other people think. Get one of those basses and start playing the thing seriously. If you care about what they think, then have them admire your musicianship. Screw the bass.

Andrew McGregor · #8 06-21-2011, 04:30 PM

How it plays is #1, followed by how it sounds, followed distantly by everything else (including what it looks like). Care what people think of your playing, not what they think of your bass. If you're happy with it, that's what matters.

drurb · #9 06-21-2011, 04:39 PM

All above is good advice. Just two questions: Did you play both basses in the same room with the same type of strings? Did they have similar setups?

damonsmith · #10 06-22-2011, 08:51 AM

If the double bass is something you want to be serious about and you are interested in playing jazz, classical and related music, then it is better to start learning how to draw the sound out of a carved top as well as learning to care for one.
If you have ANY interest in playing arco in public don't consider a plywood bass.

Rebop · #11 06-22-2011, 09:00 AM

I dunno, Damon. Slam Stewart sounded pretty good playing arco on that plywood Kay he used all the time. And with gut strings.

I don't think the materials a bass is made of is as important as that; it's the player.

Eric Hochberg · #12 06-22-2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebop

I dunno, Damon. Slam Stewart sounded pretty good playing arco on that plywood Kay he used all the time. And with gut strings.

True, but it is a very specialized sound... probably not ideal for a young bass student mixing it up in high school, especially if played in the orchestra.

damonsmith · #13 06-22-2011, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebop

I dunno, Damon. Slam Stewart sounded pretty good playing arco on that plywood Kay he used all the time. And with gut strings.

I don't think the materials a bass is made of is as important as that; it's the player.

Slam's arco is scratchy, weird, idiosyncratic and awesome - I love Slam Stewart. This young man is not Slam Stewart. If you show with an arco tone like Slam's in 2011 WITHOUT singing along, it won't go over as well as it did for him.

When we are handed a crappy ply on tour or can't afford a good bass then we make do and hope that adage comes true.

When there is a choice it is best to get them most professional tools you can afford.

transition · #14 06-22-2011, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

When there is a choice it is best to get them most professional tools you can afford.

Which brings us back to, "try out more basses than just these two."

**Damon Rondeau** · #15 06-22-2011, 10:56 AM

Which should also bring us back to "listen to both these basses." When I first heard my teacher play my bass -- from a proper perspective, not with my head sweating over top of it -- I could barely believe it was the same instrument.

If we are going to get all absolute about tools and be fussy about a beginner's ability to learn how to get an arco sound, we should be warning this young person about cheap bows, too. Let him know that he's really looking at an investment that gets to near $5k (all in) pretty quick.

Then we should be prepared to face a higher probability that the young proto-bass player might just give up the idea completely. BG's cheaper and easier.

Context is king, almost always. All other things being equal, yeah, get the carved top. All things aren't, though, and things like "the necessity" of carved tops and good bows can easily become roadblocks -- real or perceived, doesn't matter -- to getting started.

I've got one of those Chrissie hybrids. I like it well enough, but there have been lots of times I've heard better-sounding Kays. Especially old Kays. I'm not sure the Chrissie carved top is among the nobler classes of carved tops. It's OK wood carved by a machine and encased in a pretty tough finish. There's an entirely reasonable chance the Kay could be a better choice.

If it's something somebody's going to lose sleep over, then enlist a real player to assist in the choice. Someone like a teacher. Hear them both played and hear the opinion of the player.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #16 06-22-2011, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

If the double bass is something you want to be serious about and you are interested in playing jazz, classical and related music, then it is better to start learning how to draw the sound out of a carved top as well as learning to care for one.

Disagree for the block, Alex. I have no experience with the Chrissie, but have played many SB-100's and have one in my office in school. It's well set up, and has spiros (weich or mittel... can't remember) on it. When touring guys come through and want to borrow a bass, they are happy to play it and sound great. When John Goldsby comes to town to play concerts or in clubs, he requests that bass, which he then proceeds to play the snot out of with and without a bow. More and more students coming through the U are learning on these basses, and they're great basses for what they are. Students who stick with it and reach a higher level will eventually want a better instrument. When they do, they can shop for one and take the skill sets that they acquired on the first bass on the shopping expedition. Most who do this decide to keep their ply bass for a backup, or to have it set up for a different use, and this is also a good thing.

The one word of the above quotation that made me want to type all of this is this one: "serious". A student can be plenty serious and get plenty done on a cheaper bass while they gain skill and save for a better one. I would argue that they are a lot better served doing that than obsessing over a bass and putting off their "serious" studying and practicing. The bass is just a tool; much as I love a great bass, it's the player who makes it "serious" or not.

skatevu · #17 06-22-2011, 11:03 AM

I have played both, and listened to both from a distance, and it is almost as if the ply is getting more of a carved sound than the actual hybrid. I think( just a wild guess) that the ply is nicer because it is coming from bob beermans shop in greensboro nc, and he has given it a much better setup and upgrades than the christopher ever had

damonsmith · #18 06-22-2011, 11:18 AM

All the stories of plywood basses sounding fine in such and such contexts are bound to come out - even from our esteemed mods. Slam Stewart and Goldsby are not great yardsticks in this situation.
Chris, no doubt the bass is great to play - all of your recordings sound great, too. Still, when John sells his fine carved instruments and replaces them with the sb100 it will carry more weight. We are talking about something the OP may or may not be able to upgrade from for years.

In this range a ply bass may very well sound similar of better. Still:

* Both instruments behave differently interms of sound production.

* As I already mentioned caring for a carved instrument is a skill that needs to be learned

* Even a cheap hybrid will open up dramatically with age

* Since you are playing in your school's orchestra and have an interest in classical playing I would again suggest not to consider a ply bass

Steve Swan · #19 06-22-2011, 04:09 PM

When comparing plywood to hybrid basses, it sure helps to compare apples to apples. In this case, comparing a plywood bass from one maker against a hybrid instrument from the same maker. If you like the Shen SB 100 plywood, you might want to try to find new or used examples of SB 150 or SB 180 hybrids to compare. Also, it would be very helpful to find a plywood Christopher bass to compare with the hybrid model that you have played. With some makers, the overly substantial build will minimize the differences between hybrid and plywood models of the same size.

Everything that I've heard about Bob Beerman's shop has been top notch. You will be in good hands with him. Happy hunting. Let us know how it turns out.

drurb · #20 06-23-2011, 09:02 AM

Well, I'd suggest that you compare good plywood basses to good hybrids across brands within your budget and decide which bass speaks to you. The ply bass of one brand may be a very worthy one while the step up to a hybrid of that same brand may not overwhelm you. On the other hand, a hybrid from another maker at the same price-point may just "wow" you.