Pre-World War 2 Schroetter? Opinions On Bass

kurtsnyder · #1 11-04-2006, 08:32 PM

Hello. First off, let me say how much I love these forums and have really enjoyed reading these posts the past couple of days. I'm glad I found this! I have been taking DB lessons for about 6 months now and just love it! I have decided this is something that I'm going to stick with. I have been renting an Englehardt M1 and it's been a great bass to learn on. But since I have decided that I'm gonna stick with this, I have decided it's time to buy a bass. I went to a local Luthier shop to see what they had. This bass caught my eye. The very knowledgable Luthier said it's a German bass that dates to the 20's or 30's. He said this because the label states "Germany" and not "West Germany". It's in GREAT shape and there are no cracks or anything wrong with it. He wants $3100 for it. It's got new strings and a bew bridge. It's also got a really nice looking finish.

I took my bass teacher to see and play it. He is a bassist in the Nashville Symphony. He really liked it and said that he was impressed. He said it sounds really good for a bass of that money and he feels that it has stood the test of time and shown that it is not going to crack and so forth. It really sounds nice too, especially compared to the Engelhardt. (Don't get me wrong. The M1 has been a good bass)

My questions are, from the label, is this really a Pre-World War II bass, and if so, what year/decade do you think it's from? Also, do you guys think that this is a good purchase? My instructor is wonderful and really seems to know his stuff, so I'm not second guessing him at all. I just want to know you all's opinion.

A nice looking scroll.

Chasarms · #2 11-05-2006, 08:30 AM

Without regard to the validity of the label, the price and you and your teacher's assessment suggests that it's a good deal.

jsbarber · #3 11-05-2006, 09:06 AM

I have a laminated bass that looks to be identical to yours: same shape, same tuners, same purfling detail on back (although I think it's painted on). I was told mine would be worth about $2,800 if it were in great condition, (fwiw). It has had a neck repair which reduces it's value, and a couple of dings. The label on mine says Made for So&So, Chigago IL in Germany. i.e. someone in Chicago purchased thme from a German manufacturer. I was told by my luthier that it was about as good as you can expect from a laminated bass. It is possible they are both copies of a specific instrument by different builders, but not likely. Is the one you're interested in carved or laminated?

I have an Underwood pu on mine. It has a nice pizzicato sound and an ok bowed sound. (Sometimes I play my teachers carved basses at lessons, and mine is not in their league.)

Jim

drurb · #4 11-05-2006, 09:37 AM

Pretty as it is and aged as it is, $3100 for a laminate is, in my book, not a wise expenditure. Especially not when you can do this for less $$$! If the one in which you are interested is not a laminate, then my comment does not apply.

kurtsnyder · #5 11-05-2006, 09:48 AM

Yes, the bass is a laminate. My teacher played a brand new laminate and then played the one I was looking at. The new one sounded slightly better, but the quality and workmanship was not as good. Like my teacher and the Luthier said, if a laminate has been around this long with no crack, it's gonna be around quite a bit longer.

The purfling detail on the back is carved into the wood and not painted.

On the same note of carved or laminated, I also had my eye on a fully carved bass that was the "house bass" for the Ryman Auditorium here in Nashville. He wants $5k for that one. My teacher said he liked it alot and he thought it sounded a little better that this German one. I spoke with the Luthier later, and he said that if he had the choice, the German is really a better buy and it sounds better to him. I guess it's all mostly a matter of opinion.

Bob Branstetter · #6 11-05-2006, 10:33 AM

It may mean nothing, but the fact the Schroetter label has been pasted over another label makes me question if the bass is really pre-WWII vintage. From what I see in the photos, it doesn't look that old to me.

kurtsnyder · #7 11-05-2006, 11:17 AM

Thanks for the informative replies! I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but I have noticed there are remnants of some old paper with German print on it. There are 2 pieces in 2 differet spots, but they are so mall that I can only see a couple of words on each. Would this ring bells with anyone?

drurb · #8 11-05-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurtsnyder

Yes, the bass is a laminate. My teacher played a brand new laminate and then played the one I was looking at. The new one sounded slightly better, but the quality and workmanship was not as good. Like my teacher and the Luthier said, if a laminate has been around this long with no crack, it's gonna be around quite a bit longer.

Yes, but sound and quality are usually more important than its destructibility, or lack thereof.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurtsnyder

On the same note of carved or laminated, I also had my eye on a fully carved bass that was the "house bass" for the Ryman Auditorium here in Nashville. He wants $5k for that one. My teacher said he liked it alot and he thought it sounded a little better that this German one. I spoke with the Luthier later, and he said that if he had the choice, the German is really a better buy and it sounds better to him. I guess it's all mostly a matter of opinion.

Well, it seems you are comparing only two basses. Your teacher thinks the carved sounds better, the luthier likes the German ply. What about the rest of the world of basses? Having heard and played a Schroetter laminate and many others, I am quite confident that basses such as the Upton hybrid I linked to will blow it away. Again, I'd never drop $3100 on a laminate bass like that. Never.

drurb · #9 11-05-2006, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

..The thing is that I don't know anyone selling or paying that much for an older Plywood from Germany regardless of the label or brand.

+1!

Bob Branstetter · #10 11-05-2006, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Bob and others, from the looks and condition as well as the purfling I think 1950-1970 is the period and the shop is maybe Lang as he also supplied Juzek (Robert Juzek at Metrolopitan Music in NY owne of the John Juzek 'brand') with all their plywood Basses and it looks just like one of those as well.

That is about what I would have guessed, but I question if the label is even that old. I just looked in that little box of labels that I acquired several years ago from the estate of a deceased violin maker. There are several Anton Schroetter labels in the box identical to the one in kurtsnyder's photos. I would think that a true 1950-1970 era label would have printed "Made In W. Germany" or similar. It is not unheard of for unethical luthiers/dealers to put false labels in instruments to help sell even school grade instruments to unsuspecting buyers.

kurtsnyder · #11 11-05-2006, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

Pretty as it is and aged as it is, $3100 for a laminate is, in my book, not a wise expenditure. Especially not when you can do this for less $$$! If the one in which you are interested is not a laminate, then my comment does not apply.

For some reason, it makes me log-in to view this bass. If you could give me the name and model of the bass you are refering to, I'll search it on that site.

Below are a couple more pics. I hope I'm not making a bigger deal out of this than I need to. Again, I think it sounds great and is a very nice looking bass too.

BTW, why is it so hard to take a picture of a bass that does it justice?

jmpiwonka · #12 11-05-2006, 06:41 PM

when i had $3100 for a bass i wasn't looking at laminates.
that bass might have nice looking wood but a carved or hybrid bass is going to sound better.

like Burb said, a Hybrid Upton will probably smoke that bass soundwise and only sound better with age, it will also hold value. i don't feel you will ever get your money back out of that bass if you decide to sell it.

you could also look at the Willow Shen's, I have one and it is a nice sounding bass...you are very close to the price range of those basses too.

so that plywood bass has some flame in the wood...no big deal, you need to worry about the sound.

accutone · #13 11-05-2006, 07:07 PM

I agree with those that are advising you to look for a carved bass. Go to the link below and look at what he has for $4,000.
You will see that $3100 is not a great deal for that bass.

Go to the http://www.stringemporium.com/more_basses.htm

Good luck.

drurb · #14 11-05-2006, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurtsnyder

For some reason, it makes me log-in to view this bass. If you could give me the name and model of the bass you are refering to, I'll search it on that site.

Below are a couple more pics. I hope I'm not making a bigger deal out of this than I need to. Again, I think it sounds great and is a very nice looking bass too.

Sorry if the link was messed up. It is the Upton Hawkes Hybrid. This link should work.

kurtsnyder · #15 11-05-2006, 10:07 PM

Thanks again for all the advice and the links too!! I am getting together with my teacher this week and we will be meeting with another member of the Symphony who has quite a few bases for sale and we are going to compare this one to those. I will let you know what we decide on!

kurtsnyder · #16 11-15-2006, 09:52 AM

I wanted to let everyone know that I decided not to but this bass. I was able to try out some carved Chinese basses, and even though the workmanship was not as good, there was no comparison in sound and loudness of a fully carved. So, I have decided against the German ply and the carved Chinese. I think I'm going to head up to Cincinnati to check out some basses.

BTW Ken, my teacher Ryan Kamm said he bought him bass from you. This one: http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...d/DoddBass.htm What a COOL bass!! He plays it some every lesson.