Prescotts and other 1800s Yankee Basses

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Lets get some pics of all 4 Prescotts you mentioned including Andy's Prescott. If the FFs are like the LaFaro Bass then I have my doubts as to the exact maker. So many Prescott look-a-likes floating around these days and all called Prescott. Also, they were the shop that had the Tewkesbury a few years ago. See if they can't give you some pics of that or at least a lead to the current owner to submit pics for this project.

[basswraith]

Here is a picture of the Mendelssohn Quintet Club
The original Mendelssohn Quintet Club of Boston was the first fully professional "artistic" chamber music group in America. From December 1849 until 1895 the ensemble performed regularly throughout North America and enjoyed successful musical tours of Europe, Hawaii and Australia. The Quintet performed a vast repertoire from small chamber pieces to large-scale orchestral works, which they arranged. Members of the ensemble went on to play in the great orchestras of their time, including The Boston Symphony Orchestra and the New York Philharmonic

My first Bass teacher gave this old picture. He said the bass was a Prescott as the f hoels are attached and it has the same body shape as the Viol cornerd flat backs made. My teacher's bass was of that model and I had my first lessons on that bass. Is it a prescott..?There is a pretty good chance given the location of the group. . This picture hangs in my living room. Gearge Heinle was the bass player assisting the quintet.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

The FF holes have more slant that all the Prescotts I have seen. It looks similar to my Batchelder. Many Yankee Basses have the FFs attached as do a few Italian Basses as well. Lafaros bass has similar FFs as do some of the JB Allen Basses also from the Prescott school.

Heres my Batchelder; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double.../batchBass.htm

and here's an Italian Bass with the FFs attached; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double.../solo_Bass.htm

Remember this, just because it has some similar traits to a Prescott does not mean that it is. This is true with all the Violin Family instruments when trying to pinpoint Pedigree. If we never saw another makers Label one might be inclined to name everything to one maker. Being that we have a host of 19th century makers coming to light here, one must use caution in naming everything Prescott.

Jason Sypher has a Bass on the TalkBasses that looks a cross between Prescott, Dearborn and Batchelder. I don't know what it is myself. He has also mentioned Tewkesbury but I have not to this day seen a comfirmed one myself so I have no comment in that direction. See here; http://www.thetalkbasses.com/

The Prescott Basses were made over several years and with various methods of construction and models. I have seen only 2 ff hole patterns and one scroll style that I agree is Prescott. Many or even most of these Basses have been in repair shops and been cut down, re-graduated, converted from 3 to 4 string and a host of other needed and NOT needed repairs. I believe at this time that there are many great sounding Yankee Basses that are NOT made by Prescott but many of them influenced by him and maybe his teacher/mentor Willard. I have only seen a Church Bass by Willard but he did make many regular Double Basses. Though they are noted to have been made with Spruce Backs, after 200 years, who could tell a replaced Back 125-175 years old with the naked eye?

The Cello in that picture looks a bit Prescottish to my eye. It looks a bit large and the FFs are on the wide side like he made on some later Cellos. They called them Bass Viols back then.

[jallenbass]

Check out the hump where the neck meets the body. Looks blockless to me. And that's about the shortest fingerboard I have ever seen.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by jallenbass

Check out the hump where the neck meets the body. Looks blockless to me. And that's about the shortest fingerboard I have ever seen.

Yes, most Basses made with that design were Blockless. Blocks were added during later restorations. My Batchelder may have been Blockless as well by design. Also, look at the tailpiece and how close it is to the Bridge. That's a small 5/8ths Bass to my eye. The Endpin is tall and the upper bout still barely goes over the mans stomach.

Does that Bass look bigger than this one does on me?; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...Bass/Batch.jpg

Mine has an Eb neck now and just about 41" SL. If it were a D-neck, the string length would be about 39.5".

[Ike Harris]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Does that Bass look bigger than this one does on me?

It's hard to tell because I'm sure you two are different sizes, but the 2 basses are very similar - short and fat, long scrolls, bell shoulders. But the symmetries of the bouts and the f holes are different. Could be the same maker or a colleague. At first glance before clicking the thumbnail, I thought it was one of the Gage travel basses. THAT would have been food for discussion. I once wondered if one of the church basses could be converted to a little jazz/travel bass, but I saw one at Andy's shop - too close to a cello for a decent string length or resonating chamber.

Ike

[ispider6]

Looks kinda like this one to me...

http://home.earthlink.net/~prescottv...uryVermont.jpg

[Ike Harris]

If you take a copy of the angle of the Batchelder's scroll, reduce it down in size next to the scroll in the group shot, it looks awfully close, maybe not as wide but the size of the volute is dead on. Also the sweep of the f hole looks very similar to the attached one. The Woodbury looks too long in the lower bout and f holes are more upright, different scrollwork. Bell shoulders are pretty close though.

Ike

[bribass]

Originally Posted by basswraith

Here is a picture of the Mendelssohn Quintet Club
The original Mendelssohn Quintet Club of Boston was the first fully professional "artistic" chamber music group in America. From December 1849 until 1895 the ensemble performed regularly throughout North America and enjoyed successful musical tours of Europe, Hawaii and Australia. The Quintet performed a vast repertoire from small chamber pieces to large-scale orchestral works, which they arranged. Members of the ensemble went on to play in the great orchestras of their time, including The Boston Symphony Orchestra and the New York Philharmonic

My first Bass teacher gave this old picture. He said the bass was a Prescott as the f hoels are attached and it has the same body shape as the Viol cornerd flat backs made. My teacher's bass was of that model and I had my first lessons on that bass. Is it a prescott..?There is a pretty good chance given the location of the group. . This picture hangs in my living room. Gearge Heinle was the bass player assisting the quintet.

I don't know, it looks ALOT like my Prescott to me. (My 'f's were attached and were cut open at some point)
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/Albu...a=32068858&f=0

BG

[Ike Harris]

Originally Posted by bribass

I don't know, it looks ALOT like my Prescott to me. (My 'f's were attached and were cut open at some point)
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/Albu...a=32068858&f=0

BG

Yep, the body shape looks closer than any we've seen so far to me. The gamba corners look sharp like the old pic and the proportions are about right, C bouts too. Can't tell from your pics, does the belly pooch out like the old pic? F holes on yours look slightly bigger but the sweep is about right. Prescott's scrolls seem to vary a good bit, so it's hard to nail down on that count alone. Perhaps done by different pupils? Seems like Andy said something like that.

[Ike Harris]

Here's another one at Bass Garden. If this one's been posted here before, I'll take it out. Let's see what you think:
http://www.bassgarden.net/Images/sli...n/american.htm

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Neither of those Basses, the Bass Garden or Quintet are actual Prescott Basses to my eye. They are Prescott School at least. The BG Bass has a Scroll I've seen on a Church Bass. Maybe even Willard. That Bass has a new back and Willards' was originally Spruce. Who knows how many backs it had in 200 years b4 the latest one was made.

Like I said, these Yankee Basses often look alike in some features but I need a 'home run' to be sure, not just a Base (Bass) Hit!

Here, found it; http://www.vintage-instruments.com/photos/23309z.jpg ..

Same Scroll as that Bass at the Bass Garden

And another similar Scroll from a different maker; http://www.vintage-instruments.com/photos/23315z.jpg

[bribass]

Originally Posted by Ike Harris

Yep, the body shape looks closer than any we've seen so far to me. The gamba corners look sharp like the old pic and the proportions are about right, C bouts too. Can't tell from your pics, does the belly pooch out like the old pic? F holes on yours look slightly bigger but the sweep is about right. Prescott's scrolls seem to vary a good bit, so it's hard to nail down on that count alone. Perhaps done by different pupils? Seems like Andy said something like that.

Yes, I thought so too. The veiw of the bass in the old pic is on an angle , not straight on so the 'f's would look a little more narrow. Mine were deffinately messed with when you look at where the 'f's were attatched. Rounded off at the top end and more of a straight cut on the bottom end, so maybe they widened them as well. As discussed before , scroll is curius but old and Yankeeish. Kolstein, Schnitzer and Nahrman have all seen the bass and all of them say the bass is a Prescott, but the scroll may not be. Kolstein thought the scroll maybe from a diff. pupil as well and Nahrman said it looked perhaps English to him. Not sure about the belly pooching. The top as well has had so much work done to it and has been rearched. Seems kinda pooched. I'll put up some more pics when I can.

BG

[basswraith]

I know what you mean Bri and IKE... I agree.
Ill try to scan it again and get a better pic . If I can I will crop out the other dead musicians and just get a good pic of the Bass player. That way it should be easier to see. Next chance I get in all my "free" time ill try to do that.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

If you are referring to the arch of the Top, I believe it was just restored back or close to it's original Arch. Many Prescotts have a huge belly Arch. Didn't you look at my Top when you went to Arnolds a few weeks ago? The Top on my Bass may have carried 'twins' as far as 'pooched' goes.

I have no doubt about your Bass being a Prescott. It is the normal full 3/4 model as Arnold had one in the Shop a few months ago just like yours but with lighter Varnish. The Scroll of your Bass has a tear drop button in the rear that I have seen on Italian Basses and some Yankee heads as well. I saw it on a White Bros. Bass and 3 of my current Basses have them as well. One American, one Italian and one American or English head. The Batchelder/Yankee has a 'heart' in the button as well.

see buttone here; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...niBass/172.jpg
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...ScrollRear.jpg
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...s/martini4.jpg

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...s/100_0092.jpg
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...s/101_0112.jpg
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...s/101_0114.jpg

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...als/design.gif

Sorry about the extra pics, different angles and dates of pics.

[bribass]

[quote=KSB - Ken Smith]If you are referring to the arch of the Top, I believe it was just restored back or close to it's original Arch. Many Prescotts have a huge belly Arch. Didn't you look at my Top when you went to Arnolds a few weeks ago? The Top on my Bass may have carried 'twins' as far as 'pooched' goes.

I have no doubt about your Bass being a Prescott. It is the normal full 3/4 model as Arnold had one in the Shop a few months ago just like yours but with lighter Varnish. The Scroll of your Bass has a tear drop button in the rear that I have seen on Italian Basses and some Yankee heads as well. I saw it on a White Bros. Bass and 3 of my current Basses have them as well. One American, one Italian and one American or English head. The Batchelder/Yankee has a 'heart' in the button as well.


Thanks for those teardrop pix. Interesting.

-The BG Bass has a Scroll I've seen on a Church Bass. Maybe even Willard.- Where did you see that?

Yeah, your top was nice and "poochy" w/ only a fraction of the patch work that mine has had. Mine has substantial arch as well. Ya know, the more I look at the old Quintet bass photo the more it remids me of mine. Looks to have the same deep ribs that give them a sort of bulldogish appearance when veiwed at an angle.

BTW, does anyone else see faint Prescott-like scroll plate outlines on the Bass Garden bass scroll? A stretch maybe...

[Ike Harris]

Ken,

I wasn't referring to the BG bass as a Prescott, just another "school" bass. Not sure about the scroll, but the f holes I definitely wouldn't characterize as Prescott. The shape and rib linings, etc. give a Yankee vibe though. It has a replaced back similar to mine, probably was flat. Were flatbacks the standard? Not a bad price at 22.5k given the neighborhood if it's on par with most of these. Has anyone run in to a "dud" in regards to the sound with one of these? I've never heard of one.

Ike

[bribass]

Originally Posted by Ike Harris

Ken,

I wasn't referring to the BG bass as a Prescott, just another "school" bass. Not sure about the scroll, but the f holes I definitely wouldn't characterize as Prescott. The shape and rib linings, etc. give a Yankee vibe though. It has a replaced back similar to mine, probably was flat. Were flatbacks the standard? Not a bad price at 22.5k given the neighborhood if it's on par with most of these. Has anyone run in to a "dud" in regards to the sound with one of these? I've never heard of one.

Ike

Oh, you're referring to the Bass Garden bass (BG bass), right? Not mine.

Arnold S. wasn't sure about the Bass Garden bass being a Prescott either.
I asked him if he had seen it and I think he has in the flesh. Yeah, the 'f's look wrong to me as well. But it does look Yankee to my eye.

[basswraith]

I looked at the bass in the old picture again last night. Its hard to see but it appears not to have outer linnings...so probably not a Prescott.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by basswraith

I looked at the bass in the old picture again last night. Its hard to see but it appears not to have outer linnings...so probably not a Prescott.

Outer linings or not Prescott made them both ways. Mine is believed to be an earlier Bass and does not have any linings on the outside. As a matter of fact, this Bass was made without inner linings as well.

To ID a Prescott the 3 things I look at are ff holes, Scroll and Body outline. The Body outline is the most difficult to ID with but if it has the FFs and the Scroll, you have a Prescott. The large Cello Models had a round Back and sweeping FFs usually. Variations may exhist but that Scroll is usually the key for me.