Prescotts and other 1800s Yankee Basses

[dickwagor]

Here's me playing my prescott.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by dbass2002

Hi All! ,new member...

I have an unlabelled bass that a collegue of mine thinks is an early "prescott" please have a look and let me know what you think...

/Peter

Overall body length: 45.7 in
Width at the upper bout: 19.7 in
Width at the center bout: 13.8 in
Width at the lower bout: 28 in
Mensure (string length): 41.3 in

This Bass is either a New England (or Prescott 'School' Bass) or maybe even a German Mittenwald Bass. Remember, it was a German model from which he copied his Busetto design from.

The FFs are not at all Prescott. The shape of the body means very little in this ID game. The Bridge is cheated forward hence the under 42" string length. Prescotts are usually longer in the Body as well unless cut down. I have seen 3/4 and 4/4 models by his shop and this is more of a 7/8ths. Looks possibly German to me. The Scroll does not look all that Yankee but might be. Again, no where near a Prescott Scroll either.

In New England we find Basses like this made between Springfield Mass. to New Hampshire and on up to Vermont in the 19th century.

So, either Yankee of some sort or German. Only personal inspection would get me closer on the guess. If someone has seen another Bass just like it and knows its maker or origin, then that would be a closed ID of course.

[dbass2002]

Ok thanks for taking your time Ken, i guess the ff holes looks more like Arvel Shaw's "Prescott" than the confirmed ones.
From the little research i have done i've heard from different people its Italian ,German and American so i guess its difficult so say, to me it looks to be very old ,maybe from the 18th century.

/Peter

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by dbass2002

Ok thanks for taking your time Ken, i guess the ff holes looks more like Arvel Shaw's "Prescott" than the confirmed ones.
From the little research i have done i've heard from different people its Italian ,German and American so i guess its difficult so say, to me it looks to be very old ,maybe from the 18th century.

/Peter

Well first off I will again say that the Shaw Bass is not a Prescott in my opinion as stated before. Your Bass I would say is 19th century and either German or most likely New England but NOT at all Italian. The Italian thing is just a wild and uninformed bad guess.

In your shoes I would get other opinions like from Arnold Schnitzer mainly who has seen a lot of Basses, more than me actually. Much more!

[Ike Harris]

I thought I'd revive this old and sometimes busy thread and ask our experts about this bass FS at Upton. It's for sale "as-is" and certainly looks to me like a Yankee and has a very Prescott-ish scroll. The F-holes aren't connected and the Busseto(Bussetto, Busetto) corners on the top are amputated, if they were indeed there. (Forgive me if this bass has already been discussed - we can amputate this entry as well) The bass looks rather small compared to others of it's kind and might yield an interesting tone. The ribs and c- bouts are eerily similar to the LaFaro bass to me although the ffs and overall shape are quite different. It doesn't have the original back and will take considerable time and work to get up and going, but looks like something worthwhile to follow the the progress on at least. Here's the link:
http://www.uptonbass.com/Prescott-Double-Bass/ Discuss . . .

Ike

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Ike Harris

I thought I'd revive this old and sometimes busy thread and ask our experts about this bass FS at Upton. It's for sale "as-is" and certainly looks to me like a Yankee and has a very Prescott-ish scroll. The F-holes aren't connected and the Busseto(Bussetto, Busetto) corners on the top are amputated, if they were indeed there. (Forgive me if this bass has already been discussed - we can amputate this entry as well) The bass looks rather small compared to others of it's kind and might yield an interesting tone. The ribs and c- bouts are eerily similar to the LaFaro bass to me although the ffs and overall shape are quite different. It doesn't have the original back and will take considerable time and work to get up and going, but looks like something worthwhile to follow the the progress on at least. Here's the link:
http://www.uptonbass.com/Prescott-Double-Bass/ Discuss . . .

Ike

Here we go again. Upton started their own thread and Poll to ID this but it was shut down due to CUP violations as they cannot promote their own products in Threads and Nor can I or anyone else for that matter. I also had a Thread which was closed as well for the same reason so all's fair in business and war..lol

Now that this is a subject brought up by a member and not a commercial user we can discuss it.

The FFs are NOT Prescott. The Scroll is vaguely similar on top but the rear of the pegbox is something else.

here are a few problems we have with this Bass or other like it in distressed or altered condition.

1) The Back has been replaced.
2) The FFs are not Prescott.
3) The LaFaro reference means 'zip' as well because that isn't a Prescott either!
4) The Shoulders are like no other Yankee bass we have seen from the 19th century and if it is Yankee, they were most likely cut.
5) The Back we know is replaced BUT do we know for sure if the Top and Ribs go with that Scroll? many many Basses have replaced Scrolls. I know of two actual Prescotts owned by TB members that I will bet my house that they are NOT Prescott Scrolls and were replaced some time ago. It is very VERY common to see Scrolls/Pegboxes totally replaced on old Basses.
6) That Label IF it's even real has nothing to do with this Bass. The province and dates do not coincide with the period of this Bass in any way shape or form. Nada, Zip.. etc..lol

So, what is that thing? An old Yankee Bass that as the saying goes, "She ain't what she used to be".. lol Still, is not now or never was a Prescott!

[Uncletoad]

That bass is a mess.

I'll wager it would cost more to rebuild than it's worth. Why else would they sell it as is when they have the talent to fix it? Easy answer is it's not cost effective to pay for the labor and then wait till it sells to reimburse and there isn't enough margin to make it worth doing in house.

But I could be wrong, maybe they are busy and don't have time and need the space.

[hdiddy]

But what a great project piece. It would be a labor of love. I wish I had some rudimentary skills to take it on. Would be good for the serious and experienced amateur given decent coaching from a good luth.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

That bass is a mess.

I'll wager it would cost more to rebuild than it's worth. Why else would they sell it as is when they have the talent to fix it? Easy answer is it's not cost effective to pay for the labor and then wait till it sells to reimburse and there isn't enough margin to make it worth doing in house.

But I could be wrong, maybe they are busy and don't have time and need the space.

Phil, you are spot on. That Bass for free would be a risky project as would a blockless wonder. It is not just the condition it's in but all the ugly repairs done in the past that need to be re-done.

Still, I just got a Blockless and like this old Yank, I will probably spend the money one day to fix it because I like the Bass, not because of it's potential value.

On the other hand, I would be curious to hear the Bass b4 and possible after. I love that Scroll as it's all Yank' in the head and Testore'ish in the rear. One maker that comes to mind is Benjamin Willard who precedes Prescott and also Benjamin Crehore as well who dates even earlier. The Scroll of their Church Basses are off the hook. That head like Reggie Workman's, look more pre-Prescott to me like the two Benjamin's I just mentioned.

Price and expense aside, I think that bass deserves a chance to have a new life. We will never know how good it can or can't be unless it gets a real high class restoration, the 'blank check' kind.

Someone with deep pockets please get that bass and do right by it. My hands are full at the moment. Still, I am tempted..

[hdiddy]

Looking at it closer it reminds me one of those ancient shipwrecks they find in the Aegean or something.

Ken, would you dare guesstimate the cost of rehabilitating it? Where does the costs start? $20K?

[Uncletoad]

Yea, the scroll was kicking my ass too.

I don't like the look of the cut on the shoulders, seems out of character with the superwide scroll.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

Looking at it closer it reminds me one of those ancient shipwrecks they find in the Aegean or something.

Ken, would you dare guesstimate the cost of rehabilitating it? Where does the costs start? $20K?

My English Hart bass was over $20k and was in much better condition before restoration. Also consider than it does not have a wood back. The Back is plywood so add about 3-5k (just a guess) to make an antiqued flat Back matching the Rib wood, patina and aging. The Scroll needs some major work, neck graft, fingerboard and all the fittings. Un-do everything on that Top and Ribs. Get out all the non-hide Glue which I can almost guarantee you will find white glues and Epoxies. Make all the work clean Italian-Grade restoration style and then see how far $20k gets you.

Now, an amateur grade patch-job with some of the similar grade work that is there already will save you money but in the long run, will hurt the value of the Bass at re-sale and that's IF it holds together that long.

I have a Gemunder (c.1846, Springfield) in restoration now that was repaired with epoxy and white glue. Even the re-edge work was done with epoxy as well and used as a filler like a bead of glue and then the Top pressed down to the Rib. ALL of this BAD work is being painstakingly removed and will be fully restored. This Bass will run near the 20k (+/-) mark but as compared to the Yankee in question, it's much healthier and all original head to toe. The Gemunder is being restored in Boston by Jed Kriegel, Arnold's former assistant. There are many shops in New England that have 'Glue and Clamps' but only a few will be contracted to work on my personal Basses. When you want things done right in the traditional sense, it costs whatever it costs.

About 8-10 years ago, an old Italian bass was restored in London for the sum of 24kGBP, that's British Pounds/Sterling, not U$D. That sum then was closer to $40K.

My Storioni/Cornerless Bass is in much much better condition than either this Yankee or my Gemunder and will easily run $20k. Different problems but a huge Job no doubt. Good and 'complete' restorations do not come cheap and I put an emphasis on the word 'complete'!

[john turner]

i'm not going to even attempt to know what's exactly going on here, except to say that your DB mods will be with you shortly.