Question from new upright player.

[dakpluto]

OK, quick back story. Been an electric player for about 15 years. I did about 5 months of upright in college about 10 years ago for jazz band. This was all pizz. and never did any arco. After that semester of college I haven't been back to upright.


Fast forward to a week ago. Picked up a brand new upright bass as I want to be more versitle as a bass player, being able to play anything anyone need. My pizzicato is still doing fairly well (I was shocked how well my fingering was 10 years later.) however, I need to get into doing some arco work.

Overall my arco is doing fairly well, but I have one major question. Looking thru some of my old jazz charts that I always did on electric, I was looking at some of the written changes between arco and pizzicato. I noticed quite a few of them would have a nice arco line, then suddenly switch to these long pizzicato lines. So my main question....how the freaking hell do you switch so fast from arco to pizzicato? I mean short of dropping the bow (lol, not happening) I just don't see how in less than a beat you get rid of it. Any help/suggestions?

EDIT: ok, realized I just posted this in the wrong area of DB forum. If a mod could move it to the correct area it would be nice, thanks

[Uncletoad]

Get a teacher.

[dakpluto]

get me a raise at work...

[CPike]

Originally Posted by dakpluto

So my main question....how the freaking hell do you switch so fast from arco to pizzicato? I mean short of dropping the bow (lol, not happening) I just don't see how in less than a beat you get rid of it. Any help/suggestions?

Practice! Is it your intention to set the bow down somewhere while you do the pizz passages? If so then of course you won't have enough time to switch and keep the music continuous... +1 on the comment by Uncletoad to get a teacher - a good instructor can help you learn how to hold the stick while you pizz (and make the transitions work).

I can offer one quick tip: if the last note before the switch to arco is an open string, pluck it with your left hand - this will give you an extra 1/2 second to get the bow up and on the string. This also works in reverse: if you are arco and the first note of the upcoming pizz part is an open string, again use your left hand to start the pizz line and that will give you a bit of time to move the bow in your hand.

[drurb]

Uncletoad is right. Get a teacher. Then, get a quiver.

[clink]

Get a teacher. If you can only afford a few lessons, do that. If you can't afford any lessons at all, sell the bass and save yourself the bad habits and potential injury. If you want to play DB, you have to start with a good foundation.

[Gufenov]

It seems to me that someone with the appropriate experience could actually attempt to ANSWER THE POSTER'S QUESTION without the lame-a$$ "Get a Teacher" comments. Why would any newbie want to ask a question here?

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Gufenov

It seems to me that someone with the appropriate experience could actually attempt to ANSWER THE POSTER'S QUESTION without the lame-a$$ "Get a Teacher" comments. Why would any newbie want to ask a question here?

There is no way to properly answer questions like that on the internet. There are some things about playing that are easier to demonstrate than to write.

Private lessons make short work of this kind of issue. There is no substitute for one on one interaction with someone who knows more than you in person. You can watch someone play, they can guide your playing while watching you.

I don't answer every question with "get a teacher" Just the ones that require it.

[Eli_Upright12]

Ill take this one on if no ones else is willing. Basically what I do (for french bow) is you let the tip drop towards the floor and let your fingers crawl around the bow so it is now facing the floor and your pinky and ring finger are holding it and your two other fingers are free to pluck. Try just doing this slow jsut basically figure out the easiest way for you hand to find its way from the bow up to down with out dropping it. the other optioin is to just maintain your grip and point the bow tip straight up at the sky, and hold it wiht your bottom two fingers again and your other two are free.

[joel kelsey]

What kind of bow do you use? I play German which makes it easier to hold the bow with my ring and pinky finger while I am plucking. However, I have yet to figure out how to get a good pizz sound while holding the bow. I usually just gently drop the bow on the floor or try to put it up on my music stand or amp. I have a graphite bow so I am not that worried about damaging it. Alot of people use quivers. I have never dug them though.

[wineaux]

Originally Posted by Gufenov

It seems to me that someone with the appropriate experience could actually attempt to ANSWER THE POSTER'S QUESTION without the lame-a$$ "Get a Teacher" comments. Why would any newbie want to ask a question here?

As a relative newbie, let me say that I don't think the "get a teacher" comments are lame-a$$. I think it happens to be great advice, and I have both followed it and given it. For me, at least, some things are easier to see and replicate than to read about and replicate. For instance, although I'm a reasonably intelligent guy (I did pick this instrument to play, right) and although Eli Upright12 is a clear writer and no doubt a solid player, I just tried to follow his instructions and had absolutely no luck. I'm sure if I were in the room with him, I'd get it a lot faster."

[dchan]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

There is no way to properly answer questions like that on the internet. There are some things about playing that are easier to demonstrate than to write.

Private lessons make short work of this kind of issue. There is no substitute for one on one interaction with someone who knows more than you in person. You can watch someone play, they can guide your playing while watching you.

I don't answer every question with "get a teacher" Just the ones that require it.

I agree.

If the only things required to play better were reading something written on a forum and practicing what you read, then everybody would become better pretty quickly. But it just doesn't work like that.

Even if you practice very diligently, you need to practice a "correct" technique. That is, you can't practice bad habits and bad technique since it will only reinforce those bad habits.

Teaching the bass to yourself is not the best way to learn. Only very few people can pull it off or create new techniques and methods towards playing the bass. But these bassists are true geniuses and are extraordinarily rare. And for the non-geniuses, this method takes a very long time to get significantly better at best. Or more likely, it will create bad habits.

The easiest and fastest way to get better is to get a teacher. Every teacher has something slightly different about their style. But these teachers have had many years of experience towards polishing this style, and you'll be absorbing those years of experience through your lessons.

[Gufenov]

No one is arguing that it isn't easier or better to learn in person from a qualified teacher. I think even newbies would agree. For whatever reason, someone chose to come to this message board and ask a question of the many experienced players, some of whom are teachers as well. I'll assume that person possesses enough intelligence to already know he/she could hire a teacher to learn the answer. The OP didn't ask if he/she should get a teacher. As I understand it, the OP's question was about quickly changing from Arco to Pizz without dropping the bow. We COULD just make this the TB "GET A TEACHER!" forum and save everyone the trouble of repeating the mantra.

[drurb]

Re-read UncleToad's post.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by dakpluto

how the freaking hell do you switch so fast from arco to pizzicato? :

Find a way to make the bow as easily accessable as possible. I was faced with this problem on a show I did many years ago. The bow quiver made the change too slow, so I thought about putting the bow on a table by my right hand, but there wasn't room in the pit for that, so I ended up hanging the bow horizontally from two clamps that I attached to the lip of my music stand. I grabbed the bow which was already in a horizontal position, played the section and quickly put it back on the clamps when it was time for pizz. Worked great.

[Cathead]

Some people are fortunate enough to live in an area where they can get a teacher. Folk like me don't even live in an area where you can get a bass. Last bass I bought I had to drive 3 hours one way. I'm lookin' for a solid carved top bass now, but I'll have to wait until I go to Florida to see if I can find one. "Get a teacher".....ha. That's a joke where I live.

[Gufenov]

Originally Posted by drurb

Re-read UncleToad's post.

Did you have something meaningful to contribute to the conversation?

[dakpluto]

Wow did I cause some fun

Just some notes. If you would read my orginal post, I mentioned I have had some teaching in double bass, so I do know about the basics (proper stance, fingering, etc.) So I do have most of the basic fundamentals. Problem is, all my teaching was in pizzicato only as it was basically crash course to get me playing upright as quickly as possible for college jazz band. Had I not left college early (long story, dumb move) the arco teaching was gonna come the next school year in String Techniques. Fortunally I worked some with the bass player for the other jazz band for a little bit of teaching in arco. Mostly just good posture, proper technique in holding the bow (French, still haven't had a chance to learn German, but would love to give it a try).

I just needed a little advice in fast switching. I understand the gains of lessons, and when time and money constraints work out, the planets align, the moon is in the 7th house, etc, I plan to start seeking out some good double bass teachers.

I like the clamp idea. I too have played in a few places where something like that could come in handy. I'm also gonna try out the quiver.

Thanks to those that helped.

[Don Higdon]

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

Ill take this one on if no ones else is willing. Basically what I do (for french bow) is you let the tip drop towards the floor and let your fingers crawl around the bow so it is now facing the floor and your pinky and ring finger are holding it and your two other fingers are free to pluck.

Every French bow player I've seen plays pizz with the bow pointed upward.

What you describe is the method for German bow. Incidentally, if you're playing seated, you're kind of screwed when it comes to playing high on the D and G strings.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Goofyknob

Did you have something meaningful to contribute to the conversation?

Yes. First, you ignored the wisdom of what Uncletoad posted. Second, we all know that the OP did not ask about getting a teacher. Sometimes, however, that is the best response to a question that cannot be meaningfully and appropriately answered via the internet. I agree with Uncletoad that this is one of those instances. Despite the implication of your protests, it is very rare, indeed, that people here do not try to directly answer questions that are asked, whether those questions be about basses, techniques, music, etc.