Review of a Thomas Martin Concerto

[drurb]

Just to be clear, George tells us that NONE of his basses is made by Wultur.

[crowsmengegus]

Originally Posted by George M

We take any slander of our company very seriously and would recommend that anyone who wants to try and damage our excellent reputation is careful.

I don't think a menacing/threatening comment is a good way to respond to someone asserting random things about your products on the internet.

[Jeff Schwartz]

I apologize in advance for derailing this conversation further, but I recently purchased a 2006 Martin shop bass. Were the pre-Concert model shop basses roughed out in Hungary? When I took out out of the bag to show my favorite local luthier, she immediately said "Nice looking Hungarian bass!" It's a killing bass, no matter where it started its life...

Added clarification: I am asking this because of the mentions of Romania above. I knew the bass originated in Eastern Europe and was curious about exactly where, and if the source had changed between the "shop" models and the "Concert" ones.

[Jonathan74]

Allow me to ask a clarifying question: You guys know that Hungary and Romania is not the same country, right?

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Jonathan74

Allow me to ask a clarifying question: You guys know that Hungary and Romania is not the same country, right?

I know I do!

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by crowsmengegus

I don't think a menacing/threatening comment is a good way to respond to someone asserting random things about your products on the internet.

I'll back you up on that...

[Steve Swan]

A very common trap for successful makers of all stripes to to muddy their own top notch brand name by having in the same name line either completely imported instruments or "skeletal collaberations", where maker finishes off a roughed out instrument in the white by revoicing and finishing imported instruments in their workshop.

Eastman used to successfully avoid this market confusion by importing some german basses in the white and then voicing, finishing, and outfitting them in Maryland, calling them "Rudoulph Doetsch" or "Wilehlm Klier", not Eastman. They were quite transparent in their marketing and presentation. They may be doing the same thing now with some other high quality instruments. I haven't oredered the Klier or Doetsch basses in several years now, so I'm in the dark about that.

Kolstein has been pretty clear all along about distinguishing between Barrie Kolstein's handbuilt basses and the instruments in the white imported from Romania and and now China. I'm still surprised when people don't understand the difference, but I've known about these two very different lines for a long time.

Martin guitar company got into marketing trouble a few decades ago by calling their imports from Japan "Martin" guitars instead of being 100% clear about the difference. Gibson was very clear about marketing "Epiphone" guitars as being made from japan when they made that move around 1970.


I'm sure that there are several other brand names that we can think of that might be subject to confusion in these ways.

__________________________________________________ _______

[salcott]

The guy likes his bass. He wants us to know he likes his bass. Far as I'm concerned, everybody else can STFU.

[E.P. Miller]

+1. Congrats to the OP for scoring a nice bass.

[Eric Hochberg]

Wow!

After looking at the wonderful new Martin website, I find it clear as to which basses began life elsewhere. They are called Concert and Concerto. No problemo.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Originally Posted by salcott

The guy likes his bass. He wants us to know he likes his bass. Far as I'm concerned, everybody else can STFU.

+1

[Rocky]

Originally Posted by salcott

The guy likes his bass. He wants us to know he likes his bass. Far as I'm concerned, everybody else can STFU.

Amen.. I appreciate reading the review, and wish the OP the best of luck with his new bass.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Ok folks. It was a 16 hour day, and I just got in from my gig and found a slew of post reports about this. Without getting into the he said/she said, I'd like to quote the site's Commercial user Policy for review (emphasis mine):

Originally Posted by Commercial User Policy

Forum Participation Guildelines and Restrictions:

1) Commercial users must always post in a responsive manner with regards to any product or service they (or any business entity with which they have a current and direct relationship with) sell/manufacture/represent. (Hereafter referred to as "Product" and "Services"). Meaning, discussion contributed on the topic of Products & Services by the commercial user, must be limited to responses to specific questions from TalkBass members, or corrections of misinformation.

Acceptable Posting Behavior:

-- Commercial users may post an answer to a direct question asked about Product or Services.
-- Commercial users may post corrections of misinformation
-- Commercial users may post reasonable generic conversational-type posts, except when noted below under "Non-Acceptable Posting"
-- Commercial users may post freely in threads not about their own Product/Services, except when noted below

NON-Acceptable Posting Behavior:

Commercial users may not:

-- Create new threads about Product/Services
-- Post material referencing Product/Services in general question threads, such as "What is a good bass for me?"
-- Post material referencing Product/Services in general "what's new at..." threads
-- Comment on the products/services/character of competition (unless it is praise or recommendation). Doing so presents conflict-of-interest issues.
-- Post "generic" conversational non-answer posts regarding Product/Services that: praise Product; expand on Product features; are a self 'pat on the back'; are deemed to be part of a pattern of thread-bumping; otherwise contribute additional unsolicited Product information.
-- Post unsolicited photos of Product in the public forums, or submit promotional material (such as, but not limited to, press release text or promotional flyers) in the public forums (email PR to pr@talkbass.com)
-- Post pricing information and other sales dialogue (must be confined to private conversations with TB users (PM or email)).

The bolded bit is pretty clear, but to be clearer, no commercial user can comment in any way that can be reasonably construed as even hinting at criticizing another commercial user because of conflict of interest issues (as Paul stated above), which the site's history shows us is quite a slippery slope.

So I have cleaned the thread as best I can. I feel confident that someone will take issue with the way it was done, but honestly it's been a long day and tomorrow is another one, so for now, it is what it is.

A couple of footnotes:
- Please, if you report a post, please refrain from posting in the thread about the subject of the post report. It just stokes the fire and makes more work for the moderators later. Trust me, i know that often we don't get to the scene fast enough, but we do eventually get there. Please exercise a little patience. We do try to be fair, even if we don't always succeed in everyone's eyes, as the slew of angry PMs and emails is all too quick to remind us.
- If one commercial user has a comment or suggestion about anything related to the way another commercial user runs their business, that is best handled in a personal communication, either on or off site.
- Last, I myself play an instrument that was built overseas and shipped to the states in the white for completion. Granted, I'm not an orchestral player, but I can honestly say that for what I do, the only equal of this bass in terms of playability and sound I've ever encountered (and I've seen more than a few) was a handmade instrument costing approximately six times as much. I'll admit that I'm biased and that I love my bass, but still, I can't in good conscience say that the origins of the instrument matter one bit to me in light of the many hundreds (thousand + ?) of gigs I've played on it, and the recordings it's been used on. Like the OP, I love my bass, and I like to tell other people about it. As it relates to the subject of this thread (and as someone has already mentioned) that should be enough considering that no one commenting other than the OP has ever played the instrument in question.

Good night, Irene.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Steve Swan

A very common trap for successful makers of all stripes to to muddy their own top notch brand name by having in the same name line either completely imported instruments or "skeletal collaberations", where maker finishes off a roughed out instrument in the white by revoicing and finishing imported instruments in their workshop.

In the case of Martin, this is no trap at all because they state very clearly on their website what is the origin of their different basses.

[Clarkybass]

This thread reminds me of the recent furore when that lady Welsh opera singer took to twitter to deny reports that she had had an affair with David Beckham - rumours that noone else seemed to have heard of before she publicised and denied their truthfulness.

I will go with my good friend Roger Davies (quoted much earlier above) who rates his Martin bass highly and the fact that Mr Patitucci clearly knows a good bass maker when he sees one.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Clarkybass

This thread reminds me of the recent furore when that lady Welsh opera singer took to twitter to deny reports that she had had an affair with David Beckham - rumours that noone else seemed to have heard of before she publicised and denied their truthfulness.

Excellent! A manufactured issue, complete with a solution! Sort of like when pharma companies invent a disease or syndrome and have a drug ready to sell you to cure it.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Gentlemen, ixnay on the ersonalpay apcray please.

Anyone who wants to unload zingers on another member, please exchange emails and do it in private. The rest of us don't need to be involved.

[Steve Swan]

George Martin and I have exchanged a couple of pleasant emails a couple of days ago. He appreciated the collaberative "heads up" regarding some mis-perceptions out there in the world.

[drurb]

Well, there sure didn't seem to me to be any substantial mis-perceptions with regard to the origin of the Martin basses-- at least none that could be found here. We can all look to see if George decides to change his website to address or prevent any such issues that may arise as a result of folks failing to read what's so plainly stated there right now.

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]