A Romanian DB by Thomann

MIKMAN · #1 11-23-2008, 11:38 AM

Dear friends, one of my friends is planning to order a DB by Thomann. It is described as a fully carved bass with a swelled back. Ordering an instrument without laying hands on it is contrary to my habits, so i tried to change his mind but in vein. The bass costs around $1800 and the price factor for a fully carved bass has a strong effect in my friend's choice. Has anyone any information about these Romanian basses? Any information is helpful.
Mike

drurb · #2 11-23-2008, 11:50 AM

It seems that you asked basically the same question a few months ago right here. At that time, it seems that you received reasonably informative answers as well. Now your friend is thinking of buying one? Did you decide not to buy one after the responses you got before? Look, there's no magic. A "fully-carved" bass for $1800 is going to be exactly what you would suspect.

To quote an earlier post of mine:

Do not, however, be fooled. There are entry level carved basses that, from many standpoints, are far less desirable than a quality ply! Think of ply, hybrid, and carved as three overlapping distributions (bell-curves, if you will), with the mean value of "quality" being lowest for the plys, intermediate for the hybrids, and highest for the carved ones.

I suspect that, in this case, you might find some quality ply basses that are better values.

fdeck · #3 11-23-2008, 12:18 PM

Listen to the urbane doctor.

I have a plywood bass. Before the economy tanked, I had a budget for a new bass. Discussing it with my luthier, he said: "Don't assume that any carved bass will sound better than a ply."

Now I have a budget for a new bridge.

My luthier is right. I tried out my bass against a carved instrument that was for sale. It was a Chinese bass, but imported and set up by a shop that is reputable, with happy customers. Compared to my ply, the Chinese bass was quiet and thin sounding.

In my view, a carved bass is only justified if it is not a better instrument than a ply. From my limited experience, it appears that finding such a carved bass requires trying one out before buying it.

It is possible that the bass I tried out was a good one, but not set up according to my needs. This would have been impossible to ascertain, when dealing with an individual seller under a time crunch. But I speculate that the other good reason for trying out a bass at a shop is for the shop owner to help you find a setup and choice of strings that will make your friend happy.

drurb · #4 11-23-2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdeck

In my view, a carved bass is only justified if it is not a better instrument than a ply.

No folks, he didn't really mean that. He meant if it "is a better instrument than a ply."

Thanks for reinforcing the point, Francis!

Nagrom · #5 11-23-2008, 04:07 PM

For Romanian basses, look here also
http://www.hora.ro/pages/bass.htm

fdeck · #6 11-23-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

No folks, he didn't really mean that. He meant if it "is a better instrument than a ply."

Thanks for reinforcing the point, Francis!

How did I write that?

Thanks for noticing!

Gearhead43 · #7 11-23-2008, 07:15 PM

Thoman sells ply Strunals also, and Christophers. Why not go that route and get a nice well-built "starter" bass.

Save a few hundred and get a bass that will last, and use the money saved on a good setup.

MIKMAN · #8 11-23-2008, 11:17 PM

Drurb noticed my search in Thomann's inventory. So far i know that Thomann sells two lines under his brand name. One of them is produced by Strunal and corresponds to the Strunal product line, the other are Romanian basses. I know well the Strunals and having in our orchestra two of them i have a favourable impression for them. The bass my friend is planning to buy is from the other line, the Romanian basses. Frankly i don't know anything about them and i agree that they are probably entry level basses. I started the thread because many times we can find adequate information among the forum's members. In my country double bass players are only a few, so the international community of double bassists is our invaluable source of information.

Nagrom · #9 11-24-2008, 07:12 AM

I posted the link to Hora basses because I've seen and played a few examples of both the flat-back carved student bass and the master quality carved bass. They are good. The site says they sell direct to end users unless they is a local dealer. Perhaps there is one in Greece.
The flat back list for 976 euros which is well within your price range.
I found them to be deep, rich, round & loud. Very nice pizz sound and decent under the bow.

For what its worth

drurb · #10 11-24-2008, 07:33 AM

One of the problems with the Romanian shop basses is that they vary a great deal in quality. If you are buying one of those from a real bass shop, you have a better chance of getting a good one as those shops often weed out the bad ones and only offer for sale the better ones. Still, at their best, they are moderate to good values. I've never been impressed with any Strunal bass I've played. Finally, I wouldn't go near an $1800 bass that is claimed to be "fully carved."

So, Mikman, what, if anything did you buy since June?

Nagrom · #11 11-24-2008, 09:36 AM

Very true of basses in general, the fact that seemingly identical basses vary so widely in character. I suppose that is why hand picking them is the way to go, regardless of origin. I don't know about your market area drurb, but around here (western canada) that 976 Euro student bass is a $4000.00 instrument

drurb · #12 11-24-2008, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nagrom

Very true of basses in general, the fact that seemingly identical basses vary so widely in character. I suppose that is why hand picking them is the way to go, regardless of origin. I don't know about your market area drurb, but around here (western canada) that 976 Euro student bass is a $4000.00 instrument

I was not referring to those basses varying widely in character. Rather, as I said, they vary widely in quality. By that, I mean build quality and wood quality. That's definitely a drawback and is not an evil that is necessary. I mentioned $1800 because the OP mentioned that exact figure. I understand that the higher-quality Hora basses you mentioned can go for $4000 or more. They wouldn't be my choice, especially if not purchased from a repuatble bass shop.

Nagrom · #13 11-24-2008, 09:54 AM

My point was that if the OP is ordering a Romanian bass from an online music dealer in the UK, and has no idea what the origin is, perhaps he would be better off dealing directly with one of Romania's major instrument producers. That's all.

LouisF · #14 11-24-2008, 08:50 PM

1) Although I never actually ordered a bass from them, the Hora people are very good to work with and seem (rightfully) concerned with protecting their reputation (I did have lengthy discussions with them);

2) I think the OP says in another thread he ordered an Ebay Chinese bass similar to the KSB Amati's - which (I think) would have been from Yita music.

Louis

MIKMAN · #15 11-25-2008, 12:43 AM

Replying to Drurb,our search has driven us towards a Strunal fully carved bass, swelled back, slightly flamed, the higher quality in Strunal's catalog. My friend has bought it from Luby, Czech Republic, after we tried some of them. Most of the basses in this line were decent instruments, with reasonable volume and sustain. After a thorough set up the bass produced a warm, lively and focused piz sound, but i have no idea about its arco sound since my friend plays only jazz. He paid 2500 euros for it, which IMHO is a fair price for this quality. Produced in Italy, Germany or USA this bass would cost at least $6000.
As for the HORA factory, they don't have an importer in Greece so we can't lay hands in any instrument in their product range.

Speaking for myself i'm planning to visit the town of Renghin in Romania, where are located the Gliga, factory, the HORA factory and other known luthiers like Calin Wultur. The people who work in these factories make also instruments outside the factory's line, in private workshops. These instruments are masterpieces and they sell them in reasonable prices. In this way i purchased some excellent violins in Bulgaria, in Czech Republic and in Germany. So,if i can find a good instrument i will buy it for myself. There are 46 instruments of concert quality in my house, one more or one less is not a big deal. Actually my wife has placed the limit in the number of 50 and after it she'll throw me out, so i have some float space to use.
Mike

drurb · #16 11-25-2008, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIKMAN

Replying to Drurb,our search has driven us towards a Strunal fully carved bass, swelled back, slightly flamed, the higher quality in Strunal's catalog. My friend has bought it from Luby, Czech Republic, after we tried some of them. Most of the basses in this line were decent instruments, with reasonable volume and sustain. After a thorough set up the bass produced a warm, lively and focused piz sound, but i have no idea about its arco sound since my friend plays only jazz. He paid 2500 euros for it, which IMHO is a fair price for this quality. Produced in Italy, Germany or USA this bass would cost at least $6000.

First of all, I'm glad that you and your friend are happy with the bass. That's really all that counts. Now, you mentioned what this would cost in the USA. I realize that your options are limited and that you are not over here. At the current exchange rate, that Strunal would be $3200 or so.

Indeed, a fully-carved bass produced here or in the other countries you mentioned, would likely cost more. The truth is that if one purchased a carved bass here for $6000, one could do far better than a Strunal. So what about the $3200? Well, that seems like a fair price for a fully carved Strunal but, being in the USA, if I had $3200 to spend, it would not go toward a Strunal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIKMAN

As for the HORA factory, they don't have an importer in Greece so we can't lay hands in any instrument in their product range.

Speaking for myself i'm planning to visit the town of Renghin in Romania, where are located the Gliga, factory, the HORA factory and other known luthiers like Calin Wultur. The people who work in these factories make also instruments outside the factory's line, in private workshops. These instruments are masterpieces and they sell them in reasonable prices. In this way i purchased some excellent violins in Bulgaria, in Czech Republic and in Germany. So,if i can find a good instrument i will buy it for myself. There are 46 instruments of concert quality in my house, one more or one less is not a big deal. Actually my wife has placed the limit in the number of 50 and after it she'll throw me out, so i have some float space to use.
Mike

Forty-six instruments? Wow! Do you play them all? If you are going to Romania, it would seem you'd do better with the private workshops. Perhaps you can find a real gem. Now, if you ever meet Calin Wultur, please let me know. He never was a luthier and he doesn't exist.

MIKMAN · #17 11-26-2008, 05:04 AM

[QUOTE Forty-six instruments? Wow! Do you play them all? If you are going to Romania, it would seem you'd do better with the private workshops. Perhaps you can find a real gem. Now, if you ever meet Calin Wultur, please let me know. He never was a luthier and he doesn't exist.[/quote]

Well Drurb, it's unbeleivable what we hear in Greece from the various guys who deal with musical instruments. Last week i was in Salonica in a dinner after a performance. Someone who was an importer of musical instruments commented that he knew almost every luthier in the Balkans and in Romania he knew in person Vasile Gliga and Calin Wultur, the best luthiers in Renghin. I met once Vsile Gliga in Bucharest but Wultur was unknown to me. Anyway, the guy offered to contact Wultur, in order to arrange a meeting with him in the case that i'd go to Romania. This is the reason that so far had the wrong impression that this luthier exists and operates in Renghin. By the way does this name exist as a company, an agency, or it is invented?

As for the private workshops, i had in the past many chances to find real gems visiting them. Now, with all these countries being members in the European Union the prices have risen, but again they are still attractive compared with prices for an instrument made in USA or Western Europe.

Finally, talking about my collection, yes i play all of these instruments. Many generations in our family had studied music and performed with various instruments, others on an amateur and others on a professional basis. The children of each generation study piano and the instruments of the violin family
in parallel with the alphabet and after it each one chooses the particular instrument he or she likes to focus. I am known as a saxophone and clarinet player but my career is in engineering. My twin daughters study piano and now they have to select the second instrument and the story goes on. We follow happily our family's tradition.

drurb · #18 11-26-2008, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIKMAN

Finally, talking about my collection, yes i play all of these instruments. Many generations in our family had studied music and performed with various instruments, others on an amateur and others on a professional basis. The children of each generation study piano and the instruments of the violin family
in parallel with the alphabet and after it each one chooses the particular instrument he or she likes to focus. I am known as a saxophone and clarinet player but my career is in engineering. My twin daughters study piano and now they have to select the second instrument and the story goes on. We follow happily our family's tradition.

Wow! A wonderful tradition! Your home must sound great.