Rookie Question - how can you tell the difference between carved and laminate?

chasyboy · #1 11-25-2008, 03:57 PM

Sorry...don't own a DB yet but hoping to get one this week...

I just want to be able to tell the difference

Looking at a Meisel about 6 years old for $2K (said to have cost $5K)
A Knilling (Bucharest) for $1.5K
No name laminate German older $1.3K
Engelhart - $1.8

Do these seem right? I can only spend south of $2K.

Thanks in advance

benj296 · #2 11-25-2008, 04:13 PM

Buy a Thompson bass. They only make one model. It cost me about 1.5K. It is a great sounding, beautiful bass. Plus, that Meisel your about to pay 2K for is 6 years old! You could get a brand new Thompson for 1.5K!

Happy shopping!

By the way, I'm not a seller of Thompson basses, I just love mine.

Marcus Johnson · #3 11-25-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benj296

Plus, that Meisel your about to pay 2K for is 6 years old! You could get a brand new Thompson for 1.5K!

Oh. My. God.

benj296 · #4 11-25-2008, 04:16 PM

I forgot to mention in my previous post that the Thompson is basically a Shen SB100 or SB200, but better and cheaper. My teacher owns a Shen SB100, but really loves my Thompson. Check 'em out.

www.string(s?)emporium.com

benj296 · #5 11-25-2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Oh. My. God.

I know. I sound like that Billy Mays salesman guy.

LOL.

hdiddy · #6 11-25-2008, 04:45 PM

What Marcus is saying is don't listen to Benj. In general, if it's a decent bass, the older it is the better. The more played in it is the better.

And ALWAYS take a carved top over a laminate unless you know what you're doing (like buying a super high quality laminate). The way you can tell if it's laminated/carved is mostly by looking at the edge of the top. If you see plys, it's laminate. If it's even grain all the way through it's a carved top.

Kevin Hsieh · #7 11-25-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benj296

BPlus, that Meisel your about to pay 2K for is 6 years old! You could get a brand new Thompson for 1.5K!

we need some kind of community censorship button. too many negative votes will cause the comment not to be heard. there is too much of a risk for those just getting into upright to get misguided by comments such as these.

fdeck · #8 11-25-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdiddy

What Marcus is saying is don't listen to Benj. In general, if it's a decent bass, the older it is the better. The more played in it is the better.

And ALWAYS take a carved top over a laminate unless you know what you're doing (like buying a super high quality laminate). The way you can tell if it's laminated/carved is mostly by looking at the edge of the top. If you see plys, it's laminate. If it's even grain all the way through it's a carved top.

I recently posted a contrary opinion in another thread. I am not a master bassist, and my bass shopping experience has so far been rather limited. My luthier advised me: "Don't assume that any carved bass will sound better than your ply." He is right. I have tried out two carved basses that both underperformed my Kay. In both cases it is possible that the carved basses were suffering from issues such as string choice and setup, which I could not have ascertained in any practical way.

My advice would be to consider plywood basses over carved unless you can assure yourself that the carved bass actually sounds and plays better than the ply. At some point, the best carved bass will undoubtedly run circles around the best ply, but not necessarily within the OP's budget. I am convinced that it really comes down to the particular basses available for you to try out.

drurb · #9 11-25-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdiddy

What Marcus is saying is don't listen to Benj. In general, if it's a decent bass, the older it is the better. The more played in it is the better.

And ALWAYS take a carved top over a laminate unless you know what you're doing (like buying a super high quality laminate). The way you can tell if it's laminated/carved is mostly by looking at the edge of the top. If you see plys, it's laminate. If it's even grain all the way through it's a carved top.

Is the Meisel a carved top? If so, and if it's a decent bass, yes, indeed it ought to be better than the Thompson ply. At the lower end of the cost spectrum, I don't agree that older is necessarily or even usually better. Believe me, though, I certainly agree with the sentiment that it's ridiculous to simply assert that the new one is better because it's new!

drurb · #10 11-25-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdeck

My advice would be to consider plywood basses over carved unless you can assure yourself that the carved bass actually sounds and plays better than the ply.

+1 in the price range the OP specified.

CamMcIntyre · #11 11-25-2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdeck

My advice would be to consider plywood basses over carved unless you can assure yourself that the carved bass actually sounds and plays better than the ply. At some point, the best carved bass will undoubtedly run circles around the best ply, but not necessarily within the OP's budget. I am convinced that it really comes down to the particular basses available for you to try out.

+1 .

If a ply bass and a carved bass both cost $2k, something has to give. This is a very low price point for DBs and being such, I advise caution towards carved basses in this range. I base this statement off of what I have read here.

chasyboy · #12 11-26-2008, 02:00 AM

Thanks...everyone. Either way, I'm going for what sounds and feels the best. I do know that set up and strings play a huge role, so at least I'm hoping the overall tone is good, resonant and has character.

Does a satin or sanded finish necessarily sound better than a gloss finish?

Thanks in advance!

drurb · #13 11-26-2008, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasyboy

Thanks...everyone. Either way, I'm going for what sounds and feels the best. I do know that set up and strings play a huge role, so at least I'm hoping the overall tone is good, resonant and has character.

Does a satin or sanded finish necessarily sound better than a gloss finish?

Thanks in advance!

I strongly suggest you take along a teacher or other double bass expert. What feels and sounds the best to you may not result in a wise choice. For example, many newbie players find that a thin neck feels best at the outset. It's only later that they find out that a thicker neck can actually produces less fatigue.

With regard to finishes, it's not really about satin or gloss. It's about the makeup of the finish. For example, whether it is oil, spirit-varnish, nitrocellulose, etc. The luthiers around here can speak more intelligently than I regarding the sonic characteristics of each. Nitrocellulose is the spray-on cheap stuff. In your price range, it's more about the bass itself and the quality of the design and build than what type of finish it has.

Again, take along an expert even if you have to pay someone for his/her time or just buy him/her lunch. It's cheap insurance.

Jake deVilliers · #14 11-26-2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

Nitrocellulose is the spray-on cheap stuff.

+1 All really good advice but these days the cheap finish tends to be polyurethane, which makes lacquer look like a great finish.

The polyurethane cures to a hard, hard shell capable of conquering vibrations with one hand tied behind its back.

drurb · #15 11-26-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

+1 All really good advice but these days the cheap finish tends to be polyurethane, which makes lacquer look like a great finish.

The polyurethane cures to a hard, hard shell capable of conquering vibrations with one hand tied behind its back.

Jake--

Is nitrocellulose a lacquer? Seems so from what I understand. If so, then polyurethane is even worse than nitrocellulose?