Rosewood fingerboard on Double Bass

andyjingram · #1 01-18-2009, 09:02 AM

I am looking to buy a cheap, ply double bass, primarily for recording but looking to use live too, and am scouring the bottom end of the market to find something useable at a justifiable (to my wife!) price.

I have spotted some basses with rosewood fingerboards- are these a good option instead of ebony? I'm sure it will at least be an improvement over ply.

Many Thanks, Andy

fdeck · #2 01-18-2009, 09:17 AM

To the best of my knowledge, Kay basses have always had rosewood boards, and of the things that can go wrong with a bass, I have never read about a problem caused by a rosewood board. It's a major step above painted maple. Thus I would conclude that even if ebony is more desirable, a bass that's perfect in every way but has a rosewood board, would be a good find.

andyjingram · #3 01-18-2009, 01:01 PM

Thanks, thats one tree in the jungle out of the way!

GerardSamija · #4 01-18-2009, 01:36 PM

About the worst I can say about rosewood is that it tends to suffer more under a slap technique, especially when using metal-wound strings, but also from fingernails gouging it to lift the strings. Old Kay rosewood or newer stuff makes no difference there. A good straight-grained and dense ebony will take twice the abuse or more between dressings. But agreed, it is a major step up from maple. There are quite a few Asian basses out with pink to red-ish woods which are not rosewood. Some sort of gumwood (eucalyptus) is often used, and this stuff can actually be harder than rosewood.

Jake deVilliers · #5 01-19-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdeck

To the best of my knowledge, Kay basses have always had rosewood boards

Au contraire Francis, as Jasper Friendlybear would say.

Very early M-1s came with ebony fingerboards and tailpieces as did the various Swingmaster 4 and 5 string models.

Kays also came with walnut and maple boards in no particular pattern that I have been able to discern. I've also seen a poplar neck which was not a good idea!
That '39 Sunburst got a new maple neck and I kept the multi-cracked poplar/walnut assembly as a reminder.

These strike me as more examples of 'production expediency' as I doubt that anybody would intentionally specify poplar necks!

fdeck · #6 01-19-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Au contraire Francis, as Jasper Friendlybear would say.

Very early M-1s came with ebony fingerboards and tailpieces as did the various Swingmaster 4 and 5 string models.

Kays also came with walnut and maple boards in no particular pattern that I have been able to discern. I've also seen a poplar neck which was not a good idea!
That '39 Sunburst got a new maple neck and I kept the multi-cracked poplar/walnut assembly as a reminder.

These strike me as more examples of 'production expediency' as I doubt that anybody would intentionally specify poplar necks!

Very interesting! Sounds like the time-tested "send us what you've got" method of inventory planning. At least Fender had the good sense to hide all of the poplar that they used, under a good thick coat of paint.

Bijoux · #7 01-20-2009, 11:26 PM

I think Kay's and Engleheart's are made in US. if so instruments made in US can't use Ebony. Ebony is at risk of extinction since the early 80's.
I have a pretty sweet bass with no name and it has a rosewood fingerboard. The fingerboard matches the tailpiece and it has stunning looks. I have no complaints. In fact it would be pretty hard for me to trade this bass for anything else, and I have played some good basses.

GerardSamija · #8 01-20-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bijoux

I think Kay's and Engleheart's are made in US. if so instruments made in US can't use Ebony. Ebony is at risk of extinction since the early 80's.

I don't know who's been feeding you such nonsense, but ebony is still widely used by US-based luthiers. Same in the rest of the world. Of course, ethical luthiers use only ebony purchased from ethical suppliers, who subscribe to the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC) standards. There is a lot of 'pirate' hardwood available as well of course, as in most businesses. It is the responsibility of the purchaser to seek out the proper suppliers, so as to support proper forestry practices everywhere.

As for Kay using ebony or rosewood... Kay went out of business long before the "early 80's", by a couple of decades I think.

Gearhead43 · #9 01-20-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bijoux

I think Kay's and Engleheart's are made in US. if so instruments made in US can't use Ebony. Ebony is at risk of extinction since the early 80's.
.

HAHA!

Like, ebony was like totally going extinct, dude. Like, before I was even born and stuff.

andyjingram · #10 01-21-2009, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GerardSamija

There is a lot of 'pirate' hardwood available.

Usually smuggled disguised as the bottom half of a sailors leg...

CalebWilson · #11 01-21-2009, 05:58 AM

Have to be a pretty tall sailor wearing it if you were gonna smuggle it for fingerboards.

bluegrassboy · #12 01-21-2009, 10:03 AM

I have an Englehardt with a rosewood fingerboard. No problems. I've heard some say that rosewood fingerboards offer a slightly softer, warmer tone than ebony, but I'm not so sure about that. There are others here who know much more than basses than I do who could voice an opinion.

Steve Clark · #13 01-21-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Au contraire Francis, as Jasper Friendlybear would say.

james condino · #14 01-22-2009, 01:05 AM

Interesting discussion. A good hard board of ebony is pretty tough and durable, and I have seen a LOT of old Kays with worn out rosewood fingerboards. I've also made several hundred acoustic guitars, probably half out of the various rosewoods and a couple of dozen with ebony back and sides. As a player, I never liked a single one of the ebony instruments. They were all lacking a bit and flat in response. The Brazilian rosewood guitars were almost all very good and regularly exceptional in voice, volume, and tone. There is a noticable reason why folks pay so much for nice vintage Brazillian rosewood Martins.

My personal preference in an old Kay is similar- I'll gladly take the one with nice Brazilian rosewood fittings over the ebony. If anyone stops by the shop, I can pull out nice blank boards of each and you can tap, scratch, and pound away on them- the Brazilian rings for days and the ebony is tonally a bit dead.

I had a woman drop by on Saturday wiith a late 50's busted up Kay M1 that had the most beautiful Brazillian rosewood fingerboard and tailpiece that I have ever seen; 'had my legs shaking....all twisted, heavily spiderwebbed and with that two tone folding.I offered to trade the whole bass for a nice S-1 with ebony fittings, but she wouldn't budge.....

For all the ebony lovers out there, I'll gladly swap out an ebony tailpiece with the big chrome Kay on mine for a nice looking Brazilian rosewood one ( as a strictly non-commercial, non-monetary, cheap worn out plywood bass geek transaction that in no way, intentionally or non, violates any written or unwritten rules of the forum, here or elsewhere, bass geek to bass geek....)

j.
www.condino.com

andyjingram · #15 01-22-2009, 06:14 AM

Interesting- I was originally trying to acertain the basic quality of the instrument I was looking at, but your post, James, brings to mind a comment I once read. Unfortuantely I forget who was being quoted, but he was speaking about the compromise between tone and sustain in instrument materials. This guy was suggesting that the harder the material, the more sustain, and the softer, the more 'tone'. I'm sure it is a bit of a generalisation, but it seems to be bourne out by your rosewood/ebony observations.