Rumano Solano Comission

[anonymous12251111]

So, I've contacted Mr. Solano to build me a Double Bass. If you read any of my posts on TalkBass they all in someway pertain to physical issues encountered when playing the double bass. Myself, being 5'6" with fairly small hands am getting Mr. Solano to build me a bass with a 39" string length just like Mr. Dimoff's bass (of the Cleveland Orchestra). My question to you folks are: Are there any specific shapes/designs of basses that cater towards a smaller player? My teacher was reffering to William Tarr model basses as having a taller lower bout therefore having the bridge much closer to the player's arm. I want to be able to keep a big body for the bass because the string length is already shorter, so I'd need a bass with a very large lower bout to produce that boomy orchestral sound and an upper bout that is very small to help me get over the hump.

Any input would be lovely.

-Thank you kindly.

[Monte]

You're in good hands. Rumano has already built one for a girl much like what you are talking about.

However, I'm 5'7" with smallish hands and I play a Solano Klotz ;-)

[neal davis]

calvin are you bringing steves bass back to Heinls? if so let me know I may be interested in it

[Eli_Upright12]

maybe slightly more sloped shoulders, I'm only about 5'10" and I have a bass with pretty high shoulders and some times getting into the higher thumb positions can be difficult for me.

[Jeff Moote]

Congrats on the new bass! My bass has fairly sloped shoulders and I don't feel it impacts the tone negatively. If you pair that with a broad lower bout I don't think you'll have trouble moving air.

[brianrost]

Curious about what Solano's prices are like these days. Claose to 10 years ago he quoted me a simple "student grade" bass at $4500, which was more than I could afford. Today I could afford that but I'm guessing his prices are way higher...

[anonymous12251111]

I was just browsing Google Photo's of various Solano basses and came upon Matthew Wengards, it seems that the top of the instrument has some questionable quality control? Are Mr. Solano's basses being made with good quality Maple? The basses that I do know he used maple on do not seem to be very highly flamed, should I be worried about the quality and attention to detail of these instruments?

Thank you kindly,

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

I was just browsing Google Photo's of various Solano basses and came upon Matthew Wengards, it seems that the top of the instrument has some questionable quality control? Are Mr. Solano's basses being made with good quality Maple? The basses that I do know he used maple on do not seem to be very highly flamed, should I be worried about the quality and attention to detail of these instruments?

Thank you kindly,

Quality is a lot of different things. I don't think figure in the grain is nearly so important as proper aging and evenness of the grain and orientation. I've not ever carved figured wood, but what I've heard is that it is more difficult to carve evenly. Straight grain maple carves like cold butter. If it is an expensive instrument, the details should at least be what you find in new instruments of comparative price. What were the issues with Matthew's bass? Just curious.

I'm not really an expert on these things, and certainly these are issues you should really discuss in depth with Solano himself. The string length body / length thing has me wondering a bit. If we looked at an engine in a car, would a bigger bore block with short pistons produce more horsepower than if the two are well matched? The string mass drives the body doesn't it? In my curiosity I looked at a number of historical stringed instruments of all types going back to ouds. One thing that was striking was that most (not all, certainly there are whole families of instruments that are exceptions) that descend from the lute line and the gambas have string lengths very close to the body length. I don't know why. It may not be important, but there might be another strategy to lower the cavity resonance than just body length. Custom design is a great thing if you get what you want. Surprises are to be avoided. Just a suggestion to proceed with as much information you can get and be very cautious about the design.

Also it occurred to me that the length of your arm might be a bigger consideration than your height. It is possible to make a DB with assymetic upper bouts and assymetric lower bouts, like the ergonomic models made by Arnold Schnitzer, so that is another approach to getting around the bass and still having a large body cavity.

I couldn't help being reminded of Edgar Meyer when I read your post. I don't think he is tall fellow. His Gabrielli is smallish but he also plays these huge 5 string monsters. So maybe it's not a big deal. Good luck with the adventure. It is a good thing to get outside the common box.

[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

Quality is a lot of different things. I don't think figure in the grain is nearly so important as proper aging and evenness of the grain and orientation. I've not ever carved figured wood, but what I've heard is that it is more difficult to carve evenly. Straight grain maple carves like cold butter. If it is an expensive instrument, the details should at least be what you find in new instruments of comparative price. What were the issues with Matthew's bass? Just curious.

I'm not really an expert on these things, and certainly these are issues you should really discuss in depth with Solano himself. The string length body / length thing has me wondering a bit. If we looked at an engine in a car, would a bigger bore block with short pistons produce more horsepower than if the two are well matched? The string mass drives the body doesn't it? In my curiosity I looked at a number of historical stringed instruments of all types going back to ouds. One thing that was striking was that most (not all, certainly there are whole families of instruments that are exceptions) that descend from the lute line and the gambas have string lengths very close to the body length. I don't know why. It may not be important, but there might be another strategy to lower the cavity resonance than just body length. Custom design is a great thing if you get what you want. Surprises are to be avoided. Just a suggestion to proceed with as much information you can get and be very cautious about the design.

Also it occurred to me that the length of your arm might be a bigger consideration than your height. It is possible to make a DB with assymetic upper bouts and assymetric lower bouts, like the ergonomic models made by Arnold Schnitzer, so that is another approach to getting around the bass and still having a large body cavity.

I couldn't help being reminded of Edgar Meyer when I read your post. I don't think he is tall fellow. His Gabrielli is smallish but he also plays these huge 5 string monsters. So maybe it's not a big deal. Good luck with the adventure. It is a good thing to get outside the common box.

That post made me a tad depressed, it's not your fault or anything it's just that the entire relationship between string length and body size has been on my mind 24/7 and it is a huge worry in terms of my development as a student. All I know is that I have very small hands and for the past six years I have always been in pain trying to play on a big bass, and that is not technique related, it's physiological. I have the hopes of becoming a professional one day and it's just upsetting to hear that no makers really concentrate on instruments designed for players of smaller stature. Sure anything can be custom made but I also can't afford to spend $30,000.00 US on a bass. The mensure of Max Dimoff's bass is 39" and Barry Lieberman's is 40" so I don't know exactly how taboo this entire small string length issue is. We're all so biased to the image of these 42"+ monster basses in orchestra sections that after a while it begins to really damper my mood because my goals become less and less realistic. On my bass (a Chinese instrument with a 41" string length), I can barely play, most of the time I have to stretch beyond proportions and my hands and back have taken its toll, but on a 39" mensure I can play the entire orchestral repertoire, using four finger technique, Bottesini and all. Sure I'm going to get glares from other bassists but the way I think of it is: In relation to my body, I'm now playing on a normal sized instrument. If someone were 5'10"+ with large hands and were playing on a 42" mensure I would consider that relative to my current situation at 5'6" and using a 39" mensure instrument

[tompage]

Calvin, honestly, don't be worried! Rumano doesn't have a "set" model. Sure he has general types, but every bass he makes is customized to the player! You will be able to look at it and say, "that's a ____ model," but it will be altered to fit your needs. Get in contact with him and discuss your preferences; he has built basses with a 39" string length and sound that rivals much larger instruments. I did hear from someone, however, that he will be out of town until July 12, so call or email him anytime after that. But seriously, don't worry about the price! Once you talk to him, you'll understand that, if you really want a bass, he'll put one in your hands. Give him a shot... you heard the positive comments on his copy of Bradetich's bass, didn't you?

Don't worry- it'll work out for ya.

[Silversorcerer]

Well, I think you might be taking this a little too, well, my intention was to encourage you to think in terms of perhaps an instrument that has a smaller body as well as the shorter string length. Well said tompage! There are smaller instruments that have great projection and solid sound. Good sounding instruments are not all behemoths. In terms of getting what you want, explain what that is to Solano, but let him decide how to build it. You decide how to play it.

That is more what I was trying to say. He may decide to vary one or another parameters to work toward what you want it to sound like and how you want it to fit. I can see 39" as being very comfy for just about anyone really. Even if you have medium or large hands. Abandoning the claw for four finger technique is not just about small hands. And playing larger instruments is not about large hands either. One just moves a great deal more in some places. But not in others. Consider: On 5-strings 43" inches, I can play the whole head of Footprints with a bow without ever moving my hand away from the heel area where the distance between the half steps is pretty much like on a bass guitar. But I have seen a video of Stanlely Clarke traveling through three positions to hit the same notes. Neither of us is wrong. I utilize the open G and the open D and everthing else is between the heel and overstand. Why go down there where the notes are more than an inch apart? It's a matter of approach. One of the best discussions of the difficulty in technique on a bass is on Xavier Padilla's home page. He points out that we have the difficult choice of several places or positions to play the same notes. Get your confidence up and figure out where on any bass you can play those notes. There are so many ways to get there. Don't obsess too much on the bass. Maybe tell Solano that you want a great sounding bass with a 39" string with good high register access and as deep a voice as he can give it. Leave the rest to him.

One good exercise I found useful was making a stoppable washtub with a 60" string. It has 2 full good sounding octaves and is pretty easy to play, but your arm is what moves more than your fingers until you get higher up. With that long a string, no hand size has an advantage. Every 43" string has a 39" string in it somewhere up the neck. Have you considered 5 strings to get more notes into area without shifting? Expand your box, don't set so many limits that are in some cases imaginary. And mostly make sure you are having fun. The whole project of getting a custom instrument should be fun. I didn't mean to worry you. So don't worry, be happy!

[anonymous12251111]

Wow, Tompage and Silversorcerer, thank you so much. You're both obviously really great guys.

Thank you kindly,

[Monte]

Originally Posted by brianrost

Curious about what Solano's prices are like these days. Claose to 10 years ago he quoted me a simple "student grade" bass at $4500, which was more than I could afford. Today I could afford that but I'm guessing his prices are way higher...

Brian,

About 10 years ago, he specialized in student instruments (hence some of the reputation problems he is having to work to restore). He wanted to make affordable good student instruments. As people started asking him to make them basses based on their specs, he did a lot more.

He still makes an occasional lower end student bass (last one I saw was around 5-6000), but makes many others now. He is still underpriced in my opinion, if that tells you anything. He makes everything from a good student model to orchestra grade models.

Monte

[anonymous12251111]

Thanks a lot for the info guys, Rumano called me from Cremona, Italy and said we'll be in touch shortly.

-Calvin

[.matthew e wengerd.]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

I was just browsing Google Photo's of various Solano basses and came upon Matthew Wengards, it seems that the top of the instrument has some questionable quality control? Are Mr. Solano's basses being made with good quality Maple? The basses that I do know he used maple on do not seem to be very highly flamed, should I be worried about the quality and attention to detail of these instruments?

Thank you kindly,

Sorry for being silent for so long. Life's been a bit crazy. As a side note, I'm at the Aebersold Camps right now and liveblogging at www.matthewwengerd.net. You can live vicariously there.

First, as far as I know, my bass is made of chestnut for the neck, ribs and back, and flat-sawn pine for the top. There have been numerous threads on the use of flatsawn wood in bass tops and most of what you hear about it is true: the top is flexible and resonant, but lacks the same type of stability that I believe a quarter-sawn top would have. Now, this is just my experience. The purfling channels at the edges of my bass opened up due to expansion across the width of the bass. The edges were unstable, leading to the problems that prompted me to send the bass to Upton. I had to get the bass repaired (from the missing corner) and the guys at the shop believed (and I concur) that the instability in the area factored into the loss of the corner.

What does this say about Rumano? Not a whole lot. I have seen basses of varying pedigree with both better and worse fit and finish. Rumano's work has only improved since I first saw a Solano.

If you have any other questions regarding my bass or the work done to it, feel free to ask.

[anon_6j591b0]

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

I couldn't help being reminded of Edgar Meyer when I read your post. I don't think he is tall fellow. His Gabrielli is smallish but he also plays these huge 5 string monsters. So maybe it's not a big deal.

When I was coming up in the '80's there was a guy here in town Torben Oxbol who was 5'-6" at the most and very slightly built who'd been a prodigy and a student of NHØP. He had blinding facility (not to mention impeccable time, tone and musicality) on a 41" scale bass.

[Ike Harris]

Charlie Haden is another notable player who's rather short and plays a good sized old French bass. Of course, he hardly gets out of first position, but I wouldn't mind getting as much music out of a bass in such a limited range. I recently had the privilege of Charlie playing my bass(7/8 Kolstein) at an accidental meeting while playing at a hotel here in Nashville. It was jacked up to my 6'0" height and he had no trouble with it. He was here doing his own country album, of all things!

Ike