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Basses [DB] Discussion on the instrument: double bass, string bass, contrabass, bass viol, acoustic bass, upright bass, standup bass, bass fiddle, bass violin, doghouse bass, bull fiddle... :)


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  #1  
Old 02-08-2008, 06:02 PM
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Seemingly too cheap DB's

As the title says, these can't be any good, can they?
I mean a DB for less than £500! I know you can get
electric bass guitars at very high quality cheap now, is it the same for DB?
http://www.gear4music.com/String_Ins...FQVBMAodxF0tNg
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  #2  
Old 02-08-2008, 08:30 PM
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No.
  #3  
Old 02-08-2008, 08:31 PM
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lol "no"
  #4  
Old 02-08-2008, 08:54 PM
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Put a couple coats of spar varnish on it and use it as a floatation device or all-weather mail box. Otherwise, it's just expensive kindling.

Unfortunately, last year in a school district near me, I saw a similiar instrument that was sold to them by a supposedly reputable music store. The neck warped so bad that it was unplayable and it had no sound. They asked me if there was anything they could do to fix it. I basically told them to scrap it and get a decent school grade instrument and pointed them to a couple reputable dealers.

Don't waste your money.

Lloyd Howard
  #5  
Old 02-09-2008, 12:22 AM
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Well, good? No. Workable? Maybe. These prices are the reason to go for a plywood. That is about $7-800 these days and that is about what a cheap plywood bass is worth. Get a good set up and it could be OK as a starter bass - it will never be a great instrument.
If that is all you have and you want to play, it can work. Be prepared to spend couple hundred more on strings and set up and start think of a way to raise money for a real bass.

I recently played a new standard - VERY impressive, but you can still get a Chinese hybrid that is more responsive for the price of a new standard. Glued and layered wood is never going to respond like a solid piece of wood.

Last edited by damonsmith : 02-09-2008 at 12:26 AM.
  #6  
Old 02-09-2008, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damonsmith View Post

I recently played a new standard - VERY impressive, but you can still get a Chinese hybrid that is more responsive for the price of a new standard. Glued and layered wood is never going to respond like a solid piece of wood.
you also have to understand that the new standard is a very well-made and quite expensive instrument. i don't think a new standard should be perceived as anywhere near the same class as these instruments we are discussing now.

I have a fully carved chinese (cheaper too) that to me sounds better than the hybrid la scala that i've played on.

don't buy the g4m bass.... don't do it
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2008, 01:01 AM
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don't even consider buying one of those haha.

If you don't want to spend a lot on a bass right now, rent. You can get pretty decent ones for like 70 bucks a month.
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  #8  
Old 02-09-2008, 03:39 AM
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Those look similar to the cheapest db that Thomann uset to sell not so long ago. I looked it but they are not selling that anymore. The funny part was, that the same db was sold as a "beginner class instrument" to Finnland, but as a "decorative look-a-like, not to be played" in Germany.
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  #9  
Old 02-09-2008, 05:02 AM
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Just as I thought.
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  #10  
Old 02-09-2008, 05:26 AM
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Ok, looking at this another way, what's the least I should expect to pay to have something worth owning?
I don't really need the best of the best, just somthing that will do the job, and it would be doubtful that I'd be playing it anywhere but at home.
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  #11  
Old 02-09-2008, 05:38 AM
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Cheap ply basses are made from stock sheets of thin ply wood. They do not form the top in a special press. It is just cut out. That is why they are so inexpensive.
  #12  
Old 02-09-2008, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Darkstrike View Post
Ok, looking at this another way, what's the least I should expect to pay to have something worth owning?
I don't really need the best of the best, just somthing that will do the job, and it would be doubtful that I'd be playing it anywhere but at home.
Stentor DBs start around the £500 pound mark (c. €750). They are decent instruments to start on. They are made in Czech Republic and or Romania and those copuntries have a very good rep for string instruments, that's why steinberger make most of their basses there. I have a Stnetor Arcadia which is a good bass and cost me £1500 pounds, already set up. If you buy mail order expect to have to pay at least £100 (c. €150) for a proper setup. But have a look at the Andreas Zeller and Stentor ranges. If you can get across to Scotland contact The Violin Shop in Glasgow. They have the best range of DBs in the north of Britain.

http://www.theviolinshop-glasgow.co.uk/

Last edited by BassBus : 02-09-2008 at 05:57 AM.
  #13  
Old 02-09-2008, 06:53 AM
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I've got the Kontrabass 111 from thomann, http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_kontrabass_111.htm
It is fun to have and it costs bit more than a few months of renting, I bought that one just to mess about with it, it is not a good instrument, but you don't feel guilty of spending too much money in a good one if you just want to have fun and not consider it for serious learning/training, if that is what you want you need to refer to the guys that know so much in the DB forum.
  #14  
Old 02-09-2008, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstrike View Post
Ok, looking at this another way, what's the least I should expect to pay to have something worth owning?
I don't really need the best of the best, just somthing that will do the job, and it would be doubtful that I'd be playing it anywhere but at home.
A friend of mine found a really nice William Lewis % Sons plywood db used for 200 euros. It needed a new fretboard and something else too, setup ofcourse, but if I can remember it right, it was something like 500-600 euros with all the work and a new set of strings. My fully carved db has costed me close to 800 euros and that includes new strings, setup and a cheap bag. So I think that you can find a good db with less money, but dont look for a new one. And you need a ton of luck.
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  #15  
Old 02-09-2008, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rap138 View Post
I've got the Kontrabass 111 from thomann, http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_kontrabass_111.htm
It is fun to have and it costs bit more than a few months of renting, I bought that one just to mess about with it, it is not a good instrument, but you don't feel guilty of spending too much money in a good one if you just want to have fun and not consider it for serious learning/training, if that is what you want you need to refer to the guys that know so much in the DB forum.
Yes I would go along with that. My first DB was a crap Antoni which had had a lot of repare work done to it but it got me started on the instrument and after two years of it when I knew I was going to stick at it I laid out for the stentor.
  #16  
Old 02-09-2008, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstrike View Post
Ok, looking at this another way, what's the least I should expect to pay to have something worth owning?
IMO, $1200-$1500 US
  #17  
Old 02-09-2008, 12:42 PM
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My only point is if you want a cheap bass, then get a cheap bass.
  #18  
Old 02-09-2008, 12:58 PM
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Sure, but that wasn't the OP's question. He asked if it was the same as buying a cheap slab. I have a MIM Fender Jazz that sounds and plays great, $249 off the rack, no additional setup costs needed.

It's not the same with DBs.
  #19  
Old 02-09-2008, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson View Post
Sure, but that wasn't the OP's question. He asked if it was the same as buying a cheap slab. I have a MIM Fender Jazz that sounds and plays great, $249 off the rack, no additional setup costs needed.

It's not the same with DBs.
-Agreed.
  #20  
Old 02-09-2008, 02:40 PM
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Worth getting a cheap bass? Probably not, but read on ..

Here's a post I posted on an earlier thread. It tells about a G4M bass that I bought (a customer return, ostensibly in newish condition but which actually had a loose tail block and so had to be repaired).

I've got to agree with Fuzzball - you can get the cheap eBay basses working and sounding half decent but it can be a huge amount of work.
Here's my experience (and these are just the bits I remember!):

Bought a customer return from an eBay bass supplier. A £400 (UK) model which after haggling, I got down to £160 because it needed repairs (except I underestimated how many!). Note that I had previously built a classical guitar and have been setting up guitars/bass guitars for friends and myself for some time.
My basic message is- unless you have lots of time, patience and some crafting ability - be prepared for some disappointment or, seen more positively, a useful period of instrument making practice witha reasonable chance of a playable instrument emerging at the end.

What did I have to do?
- Take the front of the bass off! This took ages because it had been glued on with modern glue, and so I also lost some of the inner edges of the solid spruce top. As a result, I needed to rebuild some interior sections ( with new tone wood (and plane to shape) and to glue spruce diamonds on a few small splits (and reglue the splits).
- Reglue and recarve the bassbar (to make the top more responsive) involving copious tapping to get a decent sound.
- reinforce the flimsy sides with a few carved struts.
- repair and reglue the tail block which had come adrift - also requiring regluing the lamination of the lower sides adjacent to the bass block.
- reglue some of the linings
- plane smooth many rough interior blocks and tidy up the inside generally
- reglue the top - but first had to make 40 violin-type spool clamps (which I made myself at a cost of around £40)
- reduce the bridge height by around half an inch, requiring total recarving of the resultant bridge to make it responsive
- reduce the nut by a huge amount, including reshaping and filing new grooves
- make a new ebony string saddle (at the tail end) to replace the useless whitewood one
- Touch up the varnish as necessary
- replace the strings with a set of the fabulous Innovations costing around £80
- shorten the extremely tight soundpost, reshaping it and resetting it several times (with a setter filed from a metal coat hanger) to get a good bass response.

NB all the gluing (at least the bit that needed to be reversible) was done with hide glue which I heated using a baby food jar and some second hand bottle warmers which worked a treat. This is great glue to use but takes some practice to get right.

Total cost of repairs/materials/strings and bass came to around £300, or including a Shadow NFX965 pickup, totalled £400.

What did I end up with? - a decent (not great), playable bass that sounds OK for jazz (with the pickup) and just about OK with a bow - the sort of bass that is pleasant enough to play but not inspiring. What would you expect for this outlay?
Satisfyingly, I have had good feedback on the sound from my musician friends and now am playing in a 5 piece (Joe Henderson style) jazz group.

Although I now can't wait to get a better bass (at least £3000 upwards going by the ones I've tried so far) this bass is fine for me at present. The solid top made it worth working on (I also had to recarve the inside a little where it was just too stiff and to fit the internal blocks better).

For me, it was a great learning experience and I just like repairing things but I wouldn't recommend the experience to anyone else unless, like me, they have some instrument making experience. I also have a couple of grade 8s and an ALCM in guitar so my musical knowledge/experience probably helped a bit in getting the sound I wanted.

You will be able to see a few pictures of the process here before too long (I'm updating the webpage this week):

http://www.geocities.com/dc.hobbs/bassrepair.html

Thinking back, though, if I had known the effort and amount of research involved (took 2 months beginning to end as I had to fit it arounf work and my 4 kids etc), I probably would have waited a bit and obtained a cheap but playable bass for around £1000 second-hand. On the other hand, without this experience I would have much less knowledge about what make a bass playable and well-constructed.

Good luck, what ever you try to do. Feeling the first few notes in your belly makes it all worthwhile!
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