Shen SB190 5/8 Gamba

[ole Jason]

I used to play a Juzek with a 3/4 neck on a 5/8 body. It was, as expected, a little thinner in the lower end but sounded fantastic for jazz and solo material. It had a great, very articulate, upper midrange that could cut through a mix.

[John Sprague]

Hi folks! Here's some clarification on a confusing topic.

We have a new 5/8 gamba pattern model, which will be made as a 190 hybrid (solid top, solid willow ribs, maple ply flat back), and a 300 (fully carved maple and spruce roundback). We are targeting a 39" string length.

We goofed at the factory and put 3/4 necks on a bunch of these, so there are a dozen of these floating around. Dealers are selling them as-is with the longer string length (around 41"), or with false nuts to get down to 40 or 39.

The Rogeri mislabeled as a 5/8 has a long history that I can't fathom nor fix, try as I might. It's a language barrier issue perhaps, affected by the telephone game phenomena of a story changing as it's passed down the line, like we played when we were kids. The telephone game is also known ironically as "Chinese whispers". They will stopped being mislabeled when we stop making them, which is happening soon. We are transitioning to a model with similar performance but easier shoulders.

The information on the site will be available when we have the model correct.

[pacumike]

Hi Thumpie,
I bought one of these in December, 2011. I'm a beginner, and totally naive to all things bass. But thanks to TalkBass Forums and all the posters, I got a clue to buy a quality bass. From my research I figured that I got a pretty good price for what I was getting, even though this size/pattern of bass didn't seem to exist. Mine was labeled SB 190 Rogeri, with no mention of 5/8 sizing. But it wasn't the Rogeri pattern, and was gamba shaped, but had the construction materials of SB 190--carved top, etc. At least it said Shen on the back and label. It is a little bit smaller than 3/4, but even when I was standing with mine next to a 3/4, nobody noticed a difference. The only hint that I got without actual measurements that there was a size difference is that the person I got it from said that I would be happier with the Concorde soft case (a very nice one) vs the Bobelock, because it fit a little more snug, and wouldn't swim around as much if I got the Bobelock. The seller also let me compare the sound with different strings, and swapped out the Zyex for Flexocore as per my preference. So I liked the sound, the size, and it was beautiful to boot. So now I'm a beginner and get to read all the stupid questions I'm too afraid to ask on TalkBass. Here are the measurements:
Upper Bout: 19 3/4
Lower Bout: 25 1/2
Body: 42 1/2
Scroll to bottom: 70 1/8
Ribs: 8
String Length: 40 1/2
I have a question: How would I know if I have a 3/4 neck on my bass?

[Eric Hochberg]

You have a bit shorter string length than most 3/4 basses which come in between 41-42". Older 3/4 can be as long as 43". The body is a little shorter, too, but the bouts are pretty typical for 3/4. Is the note at the neck heel on the G string an accurate D or Eb?

[Thumpie]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

You have a bit shorter string length than most 3/4 basses which come in between 41-42". Older 3/4 can be as long as 43". The body is a little shorter, too, but the bouts are pretty typical for 3/4. Is the note at the neck heel on the G string an accurate D or Eb?

The one I played felt like an accurate D, or at least similar to my Kay's neck. But finding the octave was a little weird (I think I've gotten used to using my arm on the body of the bass to find that position--maybe I should break this habit.)

[Thumpie]

Originally Posted by pacumike

Hi Thumpie,
I bought one of these in December, 2011. I'm a beginner, and totally naive to all things bass. But thanks to TalkBass Forums and all the posters, I got a clue to buy a quality bass. From my research I figured that I got a pretty good price for what I was getting, even though this size/pattern of bass didn't seem to exist. Mine was labeled SB 190 Rogeri, with no mention of 5/8 sizing. But it wasn't the Rogeri pattern, and was gamba shaped, but had the construction materials of SB 190--carved top, etc. At least it said Shen on the back and label. It is a little bit smaller than 3/4, but even when I was standing with mine next to a 3/4, nobody noticed a difference. The only hint that I got without actual measurements that there was a size difference is that the person I got it from said that I would be happier with the Concorde soft case (a very nice one) vs the Bobelock, because it fit a little more snug, and wouldn't swim around as much if I got the Bobelock. The seller also let me compare the sound with different strings, and swapped out the Zyex for Flexocore as per my preference. So I liked the sound, the size, and it was beautiful to boot. So now I'm a beginner and get to read all the stupid questions I'm too afraid to ask on TalkBass. Here are the measurements:
Upper Bout: 19 3/4
Lower Bout: 25 1/2
Body: 42 1/2
Scroll to bottom: 70 1/8
Ribs: 8
String Length: 40 1/2
I have a question: How would I know if I have a 3/4 neck on my bass?

Thanks for these measurements. I think you got the "regular one." The 3/4 neck would give you another .5" on the scale length.

[nicktunz]

I actually just bought the one that was at upton in Boston. Put some spirocores on it. Love it. Can't wait to get home and play!

[Will Kelly]

Originally Posted by nicktunz

I actually just bought the one that was at upton in Boston. Put some spirocores on it. Love it. Can't wait to get home and play!

You got a great bass. If Upton was not building me a bass right now, I probably would have gone for that one.

[nicktunz]

I played a 7/8 Upton bass at the store. It was probably the best bass there. Felt amazing. I don't really feel comfortable on a 7/8 scale, though...or have $15K for it.

[Thumpie]

I got one with the 3/4 neck.

The D is quite accurate on the neck--it's not anything like that "in-between Eb and D" you sometimes see. I've been trying to figure out why it's not noticeably off, but it makes my head hurt to plot the variables.

I'm liking this bass. I got it with Belcantos and I'm actually liking them for pizz as well as arco (amazing arco!). The pizzicato started off really growly, but that is starting to go away as I play the strings in (sadly).

I've been playing Kays exclusively for the last 4 or 5 years, so I'm still amazed at the amount of nuance that's at my fingertips on this bass, as well as the focus and clarity of pitch.

It's way too early to make any detailed statements about this bass, but I'm glad I got one of the twelve in existence! Its size is *so* comfortable, and I'm not having any problems getting what I need out of the low end...

[John Sprague]

Originally Posted by pacumike

Hi Thumpie,
I bought one of these in December, 2011. I'm a beginner, and totally naive to all things bass. But thanks to TalkBass Forums and all the posters, I got a clue to buy a quality bass. From my research I figured that I got a pretty good price for what I was getting, even though this size/pattern of bass didn't seem to exist. Mine was labeled SB 190 Rogeri, with no mention of 5/8 sizing. But it wasn't the Rogeri pattern, and was gamba shaped, but had the construction materials of SB 190--carved top, etc. At least it said Shen on the back and label. It is a little bit smaller than 3/4, but even when I was standing with mine next to a 3/4, nobody noticed a difference. The only hint that I got without actual measurements that there was a size difference is that the person I got it from said that I would be happier with the Concorde soft case (a very nice one) vs the Bobelock, because it fit a little more snug, and wouldn't swim around as much if I got the Bobelock. The seller also let me compare the sound with different strings, and swapped out the Zyex for Flexocore as per my preference. So I liked the sound, the size, and it was beautiful to boot. So now I'm a beginner and get to read all the stupid questions I'm too afraid to ask on TalkBass. Here are the measurements:
Upper Bout: 19 3/4
Lower Bout: 25 1/2
Body: 42 1/2
Scroll to bottom: 70 1/8
Ribs: 8
String Length: 40 1/2
I have a question: How would I know if I have a 3/4 neck on my bass?

I have to apologize, this gets rather confusing, even for me, and I work here ha ha.

If it says Rogeri on the label, and has violin corners, and is shaped like a voluptuous Italian girl, then it is a Rogeri 3/4. Pacumike, you may want to revisit the string length issue, because that bass should land very close to the 41 1/4" mark. Your bridge has probably done a little wiggling around, so you might check to see that the feet line up centered between the f-hole notches and that the side of the bridge facing the tail piece is square to the top.

Mike Magee gave me some great advice, and that is to provide a model tree or chart on our website to help make sense of this stuff. The new site is in process and will definitely have this info.
Happy turkeyday!

[pacumike]

Hi John,

Thank you for your input and observation. I rechecked the string length, and it is definitely 40 1/2. The bridge is square to the top, and located in the correct place, if not a tad lower. My bass is gamba shaped and the label inside reads: SB 190 Rogeri 2011-6-98. Might I have a "test model"? You most likely don't remember that not too long after I bought this, we spoke over the phone and you kindly shared with me a bit of the history of the labeling issues, but the history of these 5/8 instruments gets more interesting as time goes on. It sounds like the 5/8 coming out will now have a shorter string length, 39 inches--does that mean that the pattern is different than what came out earlier? Regardless of all of the questions, I really like my bass!

[Thumpie]

My bass is simply labeled, "SB 190 5/8."

[Thumpie]

Here's some more info from Upton:

http://www.uptonbass.com/Shen-SB190-...s-Double-Bass/

They are listing the scale as 40.5". I'm still wondering about mine which is a little longer.

This punchy bass is sweet--I'm enjoying breaking it in. It just keeps opening up under the bow. I'm still liking the Belcantos for pizz. which is surprising! Before this, I'd never played a bass with Belcantos that could produce a pizz that I liked.

Any new thoughts from those of you that got one of these rare "mistakes"?

[espass]

hi there, i'm a newbie here from indonesia.
i'd like to know why there are 3 different choice of woods (spruce top, willow sides, maple back) and rare hybrid construction with solid sides in SB190 rogeri?

how's the tonal character compares to SB200 3/4? i know it's hybrid vs solid comparison, but laminated maple back-solid willow sides combination should do something (different?) with hybrid bass or i could be wrong.

well nick lloyd said in his website Sb190 great for jazz pizz and the SB200 is great entry level solid bass for both pizz and arco.

i'm sure anyone at Talkbass has experience in those basses. thanks

[Thumpie]

Originally Posted by espass

hi there, i'm a newbie here from indonesia.
i'd like to know why there are 3 different choice of woods (spruce top, willow sides, maple back) and rare hybrid construction with solid sides in SB190 rogeri?

how's the tonal character compares to SB200 3/4? i know it's hybrid vs solid comparison, but laminated maple back-solid willow sides combination should do something (different?) with hybrid bass or i could be wrong.

well nick lloyd said in his website Sb190 great for jazz pizz and the SB200 is great entry level solid bass for both pizz and arco.

i'm sure anyone at Talkbass has experience in those basses. thanks

I think this design is a good idea to squeeze as much sound for the money, as well as a design to make the bass as durable as possible. The area most prone to cracks--the flatback--is the only part of the bass that's laminated. It's a got a unique punchy sound. My impression (and it's been a long time since I've played a SB200) is that the Willow has a rounder, warmer sound and the sb190 has more of a cutting edge.

(I'm talking about the smaller SB190 we're discussing on this thread. I haven't played the larger one. Lloyd may be talking about the big one, since the 5/8 seems to be the new kid on the block.)

[espass]

ok seems that the 5/8 and the rogeri do have differences.
well i heard alot of rib cracks story in the shen's line of solid basses. but probably the laminated back help reinforce the ribs from crack.

they dont have that "mistaken" 5/8 anymore in production ya?

[Thumpie]

Originally Posted by espass

ok seems that the 5/8 and the rogeri do have differences.

Yes. They are very different.

Originally Posted by espass

well i heard alot of rib cracks story in the shen's line of solid basses. but probably the laminated back help reinforce the ribs from crack.

I don't know. I was thinking about the back itself. My understanding is that a round-back can flex in and out and thus avoid cracks that a flat piece of solid wood would take. Which to me, seems like the genius of putting ply there. And it could give the bass a little more punch on the attack.

Maybe someone else could speak to the rib issue...

[Ron Plichta]

Originally Posted by John Sprague

The Rogeri mislabeled as a 5/8 has a long history that I can't fathom nor fix, try as I might. It's a language barrier issue perhaps, affected by the telephone game phenomena of a story changing as it's passed down the line, like we played when we were kids. The telephone game is also known ironically as "Chinese whispers". They will stopped being mislabeled when we stop making them, which is happening soon. We are transitioning to a model with similar performance but easier shoulders.

I came across an SB800 5/8 bass tonight at a shop in Alexandria, VA. It didn't seem small at all; rather, it appeared to be a larger 3/4 sized body.

[bass81800]

I have a nice 5/8 carved Venice Sunrise bass I bought from Lemur Music.

The string length is 41 1/2" - no error, that is the length they are intended to me. Nothing thin sounding about this bass either. I use it mainly for jazz, but there is a great video on their site of how it sounds arco and all the other dimensions, if you are interested.

Just interesting that a smaller bass has a string length of 41 1/2", but it works.