Should I sell my bass?

[gnergaard]

OK folks. Here is my dilema:

I've had two basses for a while, 1 in functional condition and one needing a lot of work.

The functional bass is an old American standard from the '40s. Plywood, but decent. LONG scale over 43" I've spent probably more than $2000 maintaining and repairing it over the past 6 or 7 years including a neck that cracked at the heel. At it's best it is a workhorse for jazz gigs. At it's worst it is an uncomfortable (because of the string length and neck angle) and mediocre sounding instrument that amplifies well but doesn't sound like much in the studio or react well to being played arco.

The not functional bass is a 100+ year old German 7/8ths bass. Very loud and very deep tone. Incredibly light weight. It has been sitting in the corner for nearly 3 years as it needs a new fingerboard, new bridge, tailpeice, and numerous cracks and damage to the top and sides attended to. Currently, it holds tension and is stable but especially because of massive grooves in an already too thin fingerboard I can't really use it for anything.
The last time I had a repairman in Chicago look at it he arrived at a rough estimate of $4000- $5000 to begin restoration work- take off the top and address cracks, new fingerboard, bridge, tailpiece and perhaps even more $ for more aesthetic work and full restoration.

Over 7 months later the same luthier has offered me between $4000 and $5000 for the bass in it's present condition. It was a call out of the blue. He says that he has a potential buyer for this type of instrument, once it is restored.

My dilema is that I've wanted to step up to a 'real' instrument for a while but I've never been able to afford to begin restoration on this ancient bass. It's been sitting absolutely unused. I could certainly use $4000 - $5000 to pay off the credit cards, fix my car, etc. But to me it also means putting off the possibilty of having a real, carved instrument indefinitley.

While I wouldn't call myself a complete newbie I have to admit that I'm really over my head when it comes to antique instruments. This bass is the only carved instrument that I've ever had around and while the rich tone immediately sets it apart from my American Standard I wonder if it is practical for me to own and maintain a bass like this. Or if I should sell it and let someone put months of work into it and make a possibily large profit on it.

You TBers who are more experienced with buying, selling and maintaining old basses would be doing me a huge favor if you'd share your insight and experience with me.

Thanks,
Greg

[Martin Sheridan]

I don't think anyone can answer the sell or not to sell questions but you.

For four or five grand you can find some good Chinese and Romanian basses out there that will be healthy and worth the money.

On the other hand you won't have that old bass and it sounds like it would be worth the money to have it repaired.

There are some good bass repairers in your area. Maybe one of them would take the bass and let you pay off the repair bill a bit at a time with them keeping the bass until you've paid it off?

If you like, send me a private message and tell me who you've talked to. I and others may have some other folks you haven't considered.

[uprightben]

That +100 year old bass you have could be a diamond in the rough, or a bottomless money pit. I think the luthier who quoted you $2000 to repair it then offered you $5000 to buy it sounds suspicious. I would take it to some other luthiers and get a second and third opinion.

[BeastyBassMan]

Id keep em both, i mean they're both pretty old ya but when they're that old, you don't sell something like that. they're too valuable, and chances are that you'll never in the rest of your life find exactly what you already had.

10 years down the road you'll look back and say 'i wish that id have kept that'

this doesn't mean you have to fix em right away, just keep em, then save up for a new better one. later down the road when you get more time and more spendable money, then pull em back out and fix em.

or at least.. thats what id do you may feel different

[Steve Swan]

Sell them both. The American Standard is getting far more money than it is worth these days. Take the money for the old one and together you probably have about $7-8,000 for a bass that is in good working order that you will like far more than these two put together. Unless you are real young, life is far too short too mess around for years with instruments that are not up to snuff.

[gnergaard]

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

I don't think anyone can answer the sell or not to sell questions but you.

For four or five grand you can find some good Chinese and Romanian basses out there that will be healthy and worth the money.

On the other hand you won't have that old bass and it sounds like it would be worth the money to have it repaired.

There are some good bass repairers in your area. Maybe one of them would take the bass and let you pay off the repair bill a bit at a time with them keeping the bass until you've paid it off?

If you like, send me a private message and tell me who you've talked to. I and others may have some other folks you haven't considered.

All things considered I'm going to keep the identity of the offer private- there's too much room for conjecture in talking about stuff like this on-line. Only an experienced luthier can examine the bass in person and give an estimate or a value to it and know if this is a good offer.

BUT that said I'm defintely open to 2nd opinions. The people that I've talked to in Chicago all seem too busy to take a project like this on.

Thanks for all comments thus far!

[Marc Piane]

In my experience the price of a repair is often based on how much the luthier wants to do the work. Often repairs like this are purely time investments on their part. Get all the quotes you can. I had one fairly major repair and I got 4 quotes that ranged from $400 to $2000 to 'buy a new bass'. Bob Gollihur has a nice resource on his website if we are not naming names here.

Email or call me if you want some personal advice.

[Uncletoad]

Sounds like it's time for an upgrade.

I'd sell them both and buy a bass that is ready to play gigs with TODAY that sounds and plays exactly like you want it to and move on.

Neither instrument is serving you well at this point. You have to decide if you are a collector, a restorer, or a bass player.

The bass player might want to get as much cash together as humanly possible and buy the best bass you can for the money you have and go out and play.

In this case any investment value, future potential or equity you think you may have is truncated by the fact that both basses kind of suck. The AS is way overvalued for it's utility and the old guy is busted up.

As an end user, not a dealer, broker, or repairman, you will always end up leaving some money on the table. Get next to that. It's really ok.

Take the most you can get, don't procrastinate and loose a buyer and start shopping before the money goes to pay the rent.

[Eli_Upright12]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Sounds like it's time for an upgrade.

I'd sell them both and buy a bass that is ready to play gigs with TODAY that sounds and plays exactly like you want it to and move on.

Neither instrument is serving you well at this point. You have to decide if you are a collector, a restorer, or a bass player.

The bass player might want to get as much cash together as humanly possible and buy the best bass you can for the money you have and go out and play.

In this case any investment value, future potential or equity you think you may have is truncated by the fact that both basses kind of suck. The AS is way overvalued for it's utility and the old guy is busted up.

As an end user, not a dealer, broker, or repairman, you will always end up leaving some money on the table. Get next to that. It's really ok.

Take the most you can get, don't procrastinate and loose a buyer and start shopping before the money goes to pay the rent.

Too me at least if your were to take a route like this your would want to find "THE" bass first and maybe a buyer for the AS.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by Steve Swan

Sell them both. The American Standard is getting far more money than it is worth these days. Take the money for the old one and together you probably have about $7-8,000 for a bass that is in good working order that you will like far more than these two put together. Unless you are real young, life is far too short too mess around for years with instruments that are not up to snuff.

I agree with this. Even if you were to sell the AS and put the money into repairs on the old bass, you don't know how the old bass will come out and if you will even like it when it's done. The restoration process can be exciting but is a gamble, it also takes a lot of effort (even if you aren't doing the work), many trips to the luthier and possible increasing expenses. You should be able to find a nice playable instrument, maybe even an older bass in good shape, for $7-8,000.

I have some experience with this if you want to email or call.

[gnergaard]

...or Jazz, or Baroque or what ever it is that each of you do.
I really appreciate the advice.
I'm leaning towords keeping the AS and selling the Old German and begining to save up for a new instrument.
The guy offering had a really nice 50's czeck 3/4ths that he lent to me when my AS was last in the shop. Maybe I'll ask him about a trade...I think he was considering selling it for about 5K.
Anyway, Eric, I may indeed contact you for advice...and for lessons!

[gnergaard]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Sounds like it's time for an upgrade.

I'd sell them both and buy a bass that is ready to play gigs with TODAY that sounds and plays exactly like you want it to and move on.

Neither instrument is serving you well at this point. You have to decide if you are a collector, a restorer, or a bass player.

The bass player might want to get as much cash together as humanly possible and buy the best bass you can for the money you have and go out and play.

In this case any investment value, future potential or equity you think you may have is truncated by the fact that both basses kind of suck. The AS is way overvalued for it's utility and the old guy is busted up.

As an end user, not a dealer, broker, or repairman, you will always end up leaving some money on the table. Get next to that. It's really ok.

Take the most you can get, don't procrastinate and loose a buyer and start shopping before the money goes to pay the rent.

Unky T, you have a way of getting down to the nitty gritty of an issue that I really appreciate. Thanks.
Maybe I need to get myself one a dem new-fangled New Standard Hybrids or La Scalas. I think that might be a good 'next bass' for me. How you likin' yours?

[gnergaard]

I probably won't sell my AS anytime soon though. For all it's limitations it's easily one of the best Plywoods I've played. Besides, I've given it so many 'love bites' that it isn't worth that much anymore.
Cracked neck at the heel, nicks, wear and tear. I think that it's now mine and mine alone by virtue of my carelessness. And it beats bringing a $20,000 carved antique to a bar gig!

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by gnergaard

Unky T, you have a way of getting down to the nitty gritty of an issue that I really appreciate. Thanks.
Maybe I need to get myself one a dem new-fangled New Standard Hybrids or La Scalas. I think that might be a good 'next bass' for me. How you likin' yours?

When you get a minute, Drive down to Louisville through Columbus. While in Columbus, play Phil's Cleveland. When you get to the 'Ville, you can play my hybrid LaScala, two other hybrid LaScalas, and my ply LaScala. Then you can drive back to Chi-town, sell both yer basses, get a LaScala carved or hybrid, and take the extra money and do something useful with it.

[damonsmith]

I'd get as many opinions and estimates on the German bass as possible, then sell the plywood, nicks and scratches rarely matter, for the repairs. If you get it in good working order you will probably never want to touch a ply bass again.

[Carl Johnson]

Dude,

Never understood why people pay good money for old Kay’s and Standards; to me they sound about the same as new plywood basses. They never get all that open but they are priced high because of some perceived mojo because they are old, non-sense. An old carved instrument gets better, and for bass, tone is everything. There’s a reason most players seek out aged solid basses; they have tone that you can’t get any where else.

Maybe you can find a luthier who’ll do the repairs to the old carved bass in trade for your plywood. If a luthier is offering you 4k for a non-player, you have to guess that it is worth his while to turn it. So in his eye it’s definitely worth more that what he’s offering you.

Especially if your ply is a pain to play, get what can for it and get the old one fixed up.

Rough numbers but close…
Fingerboard $300, cut installed $150
New bridge $75.00, cut installed $100
Tailpiece $100
Top off and cracks attended to $800
$1525

Trust me you’ll never find a health old carved bass for that cheap ever again. Its resale value will be higher than before the repair plus the plywood bass together.

Takes a little initiative but you’ll end up with the better bass. Players take old carved basses to bar gigs all the time, just take care of it.

You can always buy a ply on the cheap on craigslist anyways.

[gnergaard]

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

Dude,

Never understood why people pay good money for old Kay’s and Standards; to me they sound about the same as new plywood basses. They never get all that open but they are priced high because of some perceived mojo because they are old, non-sense. An old carved instrument gets better, and for bass, tone is everything. There’s a reason most players seek out aged solid basses; they have tone that you can’t get any where else.

Maybe you can find a luthier who’ll do the repairs to the old carved bass in trade for your plywood. If a luthier is offering you 4k for a non-player, you have to guess that it is worth his while to turn it. So in his eye it’s definitely worth more that what he’s offering you.

Especially if your ply is a pain to play, get what can for it and get the old one fixed up.

Rough numbers but close…
Fingerboard $300, cut installed $150
New bridge $75.00, cut installed $100
Tailpiece $100
Top off and cracks attended to $800
$1525

Trust me you’ll never find a health old carved bass for that cheap ever again. Its resale value will be higher than before the repair plus the plywood bass together.

Takes a little initiative but you’ll end up with the better bass. Players take old carved basses to bar gigs all the time, just take care of it.

You can always buy a ply on the cheap on craigslist anyways.

Man. Wow. I've never paid that little for repairs. Ever. Not in Chicago. I've used 3 different luthiers and, for one example, always gotten quotes for a new fingerboard that are $750 to 1K.
Those quotes were from top-notch people, granted, who are always in demand, but I'm really shocked at that big a price difference in what is highly skilled and time consuming labor.
I've heard that luthiers in other locales are often cheaper but the prices you are quoting are ridiculously low.
Not to turn this into another American Standard thread, or take back any of the complaints that I have about the design of my old AS, but really, when I first got that bass (before numerous repairs) it really did sound good. Lots of other players in town said that they couldn't believe it wasn't carved when they heard it. Tone and growl for days. When I cracked the neck and finally had to replace the fingerboard it just changed a little bit. The original fingerboard was rose wood- but of a very rare kind possibly 'Iron Wood' from north Michigan or some North American relative of pau-ferro. People had some trouble I.D.-ing the wood and it was so hard that one luthier complained that it dulled his tools and tired his arms when I had it re-planed. The new ebony fingerboard is nice, but just doesnt sound the same. Anyway, an old A.S. isn't as complex or as responsive as a good carved bass by any means but I can see why people pay between 2k and 3K for the older ones in good condition. I can also see why Arnold Schnitzer and Co. copied and updated the design.
Thanks for all the responses. I do have a decision to make but your opinions really have helped me look at this from some different perspectives.

[ctregan]

If you were offered 4,000-5,000 for the German bass in the present condition, what would it be worth if it were fully restored?
Post pictures of the bass, maybe someone could give you useful information on history, maker, value, etc.

[ctregan]

http://www.nahrmannbass.com/cgi-bin/...sedBassRecords

Check out some of the old German basses here.

[gnergaard]

OK here's pics. The old american standard is "Bessie".
The German (?) old dog has no name. Prolly easier for me to sell her that way.