So, I'd like to get into upright for jazz, and...

AJHS-1stTrumpet · #1 02-18-2007, 02:12 PM

Hello! My main instrument is trumpet, followed by electric guitar, and then bass guitar. I've always loved the sound of upright basses in jazz, and I have a good ear for tuning, so I would know when I'm hitting the right note or not. I've been on the lookout for a cheap yet decent bass to buy. I really don't have a thousand to plunk down on a starter bass. This one on ebay caught my eye...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Upright-Double-B...QQcmdZViewItem

It doesn't have much of a description, it only says that it's made in east germany. It's obviously kinda beat up. I read through many of the noobie links, and didn't see anything about east german basses. Is this thing worth it? I'm not entirely serious about gigging any time soon (I'm only 16), but with a proper set up, does this look like it would work for my intended use (jazz)?

Any input is greatly appreciated!

P.S.- Bass lessons are kinda out of the question right now, because I'm spending enough as it is on trumpet lessons...I also live in Phoenix so I'm pretty close to where this bass is located to pick it up.

PoorPlayer · #2 02-18-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Very well used Upright/Double Bass. No info available, only 1 tag inside, "Made in German Democratic Republic". Comes with soft bag/case. Formerly belonged to local musician whom passed away about 2 years ago. Pictures show lots of wear and tear but this Bass still sings! Local pick up only!

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJHS-1stTrumpet

Any input is greatly appreciated!

If you've read the noobie links, then you know that the cheapest bass to buy may not be the cheapest bass to own. If the bass is structurally sound and has a decent set-up, it might be worth looking at closely.

Here's the obvious stuff I see in the pictures. The upper bout has water damage to the surface. The bass has an ebonized tailpiece that is losing its 'ebony' coating. The endpin hole looks like it has blue fuzz stuffed in it. Maybe the endpin has been replaced with one too small for the opening? It has some modern add-ons: a quiver, pickup, and an adjustable bridge. The feet of the bridge look like they are peculiarly placed to me.

The water damage is ugly, but it hasn't caused any delamination nor has it caused the top to separate from the ribs.

No pictures of the inside, so whether the sound post is up or not is unknown.

If you have GAS and really want this bass, contact the seller and ask if you can come and try it. Based on the pictures, I wouldn't even bid on it until I had heard what it sounds like.

I'd ask for more photos first. Pictures of the back, the base of the neck from both sides and rear, the label inside, and one straight on from the front as a minimum.

It comes with a case but no bow. Obviously there was a bow or the quiver wouldn't be needed. I'd ask about the bow.

I've probably told you nothing you didn't already know, but you said any input.

**Matthew Tucker** · #3 02-18-2007, 03:20 PM

If you read the noobie links you'll have discovered the dark-side mantra "find a teacher" - and so your announcement that lessons are outta the question may not get you very far here(!) neither will it get you very far on the bass.

Its not just intonation you have to learn, but the fingering is different to bass guitar. And posture. And approach.

Can't really tell much about the bass from the pix. Doesn't look like water damage to me, just intense wear from vigorous playing! Looking at the grain on the top, it looks like it may be a carved bass which could be good if it is in good structural condition. It could be a bargain bass, with lots of character and a nice sound ... but if it needs a lot of structural repairs it might end up costing you a LOT more that you bargained for, just to be able to play it. Like, thousands of dollars. You know how much a "proper setup" costs?

Only someone who knows basses really well will be able to tell you if its a good deal. So find an experienced DB player or luthier and take them along with you to look at it.

AJHS-1stTrumpet · #4 02-18-2007, 04:25 PM

Thanks for the advice guys. I figured that was the verdict, but I'll ask for some better pictures anyway. What made me really interested again is that I made it into my region's orchestra as a trumpet player and loved the sound of those guys playing jazz/blues riffs during breaks. Lessons would be out of the question in the immediate future, but if my school actually starts an orchestra program like it said it will next year, I might reconsider.

TSP · #5 02-18-2007, 05:57 PM

Just to note that I've replied (perhaps not helpfully) to a small portion of this thread, on self-teaching, but I decided it was sufficiently off-topic to be better as a new thread.

AJHS-1stTrumpet · #6 02-18-2007, 07:04 PM

Thanks, your new topic was a good read TSP! I seem to have done pretty well on trumpet with no lessons other than music theory (all of my band directors have been woodwind players or dummers). I made it into regionals last year, and this year with only a month or so of lessions before the audition. I was the same way on guitar, and my church one day handed me a bass guitar and said start playing, and since I understand chord structures and where the notes on the fretboard relate to written music, I picked up on it quickly.

I understand completely that upright bass is a much more difficult animal than fretted instruments, but do I really need a symphonic teacher for starting out and trying to play 50s rock and jazz? If I get to the "mediocre" point, I usually get lessons to get me to the next level, but if it's really that impossible to learn that kind of playing on upright without investing a huge amount of money (a few grand on a bass plus lessons) then I'm going to go with a fretless bass guitar (squier vintage modified most likely) instead. I'm 16 and have no job, and I'm lucky my parents have provided me with what I already have, and although they support my musical endevors, that kind of money is a bit unreasonable.

Marcus Johnson · #7 02-18-2007, 07:25 PM

I would say that it would be a good choice to get a first lesson on DB if possible. There is a real possibility of injuring yourself playing bass, especially if the bass is not set up well by a bass luthier.

I'm an ex-trumpet guy myself, from elementary school through the college level and beyond. Imagine someone pushing that piece of metal against their face without some basic training. Same applies to bass. If you hurt yourself, you can't gig at all, which it counterproductive.

At any rate, buying the instrument first to see if you like it is going backwards. If you hear a certain musical voice in your head, you find youself able to manipulate the machine that produces that voice, with any luck. Otherwise, you're just filling up the "used instrument" column in the classifieds.

TSP · #8 02-18-2007, 08:11 PM

I think that something that is fairly clear is that at least most self-taught bassists who reach a high level wish they'd had more formal tuition early on. Part of the joy of life, though, is the freedom to make your own stupid decisions :-)

I have a very small amount of piano training, from which I've taught myself an assortment of other instruments (like you, I picked up bass guitar almost mid-service when my church had a bass and desperately needed a player - it's now probably my primary instrument). I'm just starting to do the same on the double bass (with the help of a small collection of books), and while I'm by no means ready to call the experiment a success just yet, it seems to be moving along; I've played in more-or-less-public once, and I haven't injured myself any more than on any other instrument (blisters, fatigue of the plucking hand). (My bass did benefit from a good setup before I started.)

On all the instruments I play, I do think I'd be better off if I'd had lessons. However, I'm stubborn, impatient and bad at accepting discipline. I'm probably doomed to never be a good technician on any instrument; but I'm capable of expressing myself to my own satisfaction on several.

**Matthew Tucker** · #9 02-18-2007, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSP

I'm stubborn, impatient and bad at accepting discipline.

And a lefty, too!!!

TSP · #10 02-19-2007, 08:42 AM

And that, yes - I was leaving that out because it complicates matters and doesn't apply to most other players. At the moment, I'm approaching the double bass in parallel, playing some left-handed and some right-handed; I'm getting along with both, but left-handed is progressing quite a bit faster.

This is all on a normal right-handed double bass. I'm aware there are numerous issues with playing a right-handed bass left-handed (one of which is that large amounts of the existing teaching materials don't apply to what I'm doing). On the other hand, I've found with guitar and electric bass that, while some techniques are harder, others are easier (for example, on guitar I can't take the bass line with my thumb; on the other hand, on electric bass I can play funk lines by playing a low note with a finger then 'popping' the octave note with my thumb). If it doesn't come off, I can transfer almost all the knowledge and feel to a left-handed bass; or take the painful route of sitting down and learning the whole thing the other way around (as Christopher Seed did with piano). If it does, I get to play with my preferred hands, while still being able to play on other peoples' basses.

Like almost everything I do in music, it's a Brave Experiment. I'll let you know how it goes :-)

Bruce Lindfield · #11 02-19-2007, 08:49 AM

Well as mentioned in the other thread - you are of course free to do what you like - but this doesn't make it good advice for the majority of people!!

TSP · #12 02-19-2007, 08:54 AM

That was partly why I hadn't discussed it. I consider it my own stupid decision.

liam_g · #13 02-23-2007, 12:48 AM

As someone who is self-taught, and from a very similar background to yours (1st chair trumpet in school, picked up guitar and electric bass very easily), let me just share one cautionary tale. I'm not new to double bass. I played in college jazz combos years ago, then didn't play for a while, then picked it up again a bit over a year ago. I get paid to play it, even. But a week or two ago, I was trying out basses in preparation for buying one (New bass ... tough decision!!. I didn't realize it at the time, but I injured my left hand during the tryouts. I am 100% sure that this is because I have always used more of an electric bass approach with both my hands. I may have to cancel a couple of really great gigs because of the injury. It was a wakeup call, and I am going to start lessons soon.

At the very least ... consider what everyone has said, and consider getting just *one* lesson on the physical aspects of the instrument: how to play it without getting injured. Getting a lesson isn't some admission that you're not good enough to go it on your own ... it's not about talent or aptitude, it's about playing a very physical instrument that uses muscles, tendons, joints and ligaments in ways that no other instrument does. There's no harm in getting someone who knows the instrument to show you the ropes. There may be considerable harm in not doing so.

Respectfully,
Liam