Solutions for a Dull, Unresponsive, and Expensive Bass

[bassface747]

Hello all,

I am in sore need of advice. At the end of June, I bought the instrument that I thought we be the be-all and end-all of any instrument I ever needed to buy. It hasn't exactly turned out that way - the more I play it, the more I regret buying it.

I'm in my last year of high school right now, and planning on continuing my musical studies in the fall. I found an excellent teacher (he plays in my city's symphony orchestra) at the beginning of my Grade 11 year, praticed a ton, and improved immediately and drastically. I come from a musical family - I played violin for 8 years before picking up electric bass, and adding upright bass realized it was the true instrument for me. I'm lucky in that my family is very supportive of me, they drive me to my rehearsals, concerts, etc.... and they help me cover costs.

So I really am serious about this, and that's probably what the people around me saw when I bought a $15,000 instrument. Except.... after 6 months of playing it, I'm almost certain that it's just not the right instrument for me. Don't get me wrong, it's solidly built, well constructed - but it doesn't fit my hand right, is stiff and unresponsive to me, and I honestly just don't like the sound.

It's a fully carved Romanian instrument, violin corners, BEAUTIFUL wood and grain, which I bought from my teacher who is also Romanian and deals with the maker directly. I trust him, and he's also worked on it pretty extensively. But I still don't like it, and I'm considering selling it - any ideas?

If you need more info ask.

Thanks

[Sippy]

Is your teacher a luthier? if not I'd consider bring it to a reputable one and see if there could be some adjustments.

[PoorPlayer]

Originally Posted by Sippy

Is your teacher a luthier? if not I'd consider bring it to a reputable one and see if there could be some adjustments.

+1

Also, have you considered changing strings?

[Marcus Johnson]

You answered your own question. The bass isn't working for you; maybe it would work well for someone else. Sell it, and play basses that are for sale until you find one that speaks for you.

I hate to be a skeptic, but having a teacher who's also a bass dealer might be a conflict of interests. But if you trust the guy, I'm sure he can help you sell your bass and find one that works for you.

Edit.... that's probably putting the cart before the horse.... Sippy and Poorplayer are right...
I'd probably try some string and/or setup adjustments before I'd discard the bass...

[Silversorcerer]

You've only had it for six months. Sometimes it takes a while for a new bass to open up. At that price, from Romania, it should be a master quality instrument. Before you dump it, make sure it is played in. I have a newish Bulgarian carved instrument. It was kind of stiff a year and a half ago when new. The difference time can make is surprising.

I'd be inclined to give it a little more time, perhaps a year at least, try a different luthier's setup, different strings (less tension or more) before switching. It doesn't hurt to play other basses in the meantime. What part doesn't fit your hand? Do you mean the neck width / shape or the mensur? What was your former bass like?

[kontrabass]

It has been suggested to me that one should never buy an instrument based on how it COULD sound, but rather how it sounds when you play it for the first time. Granted, it takes some time for one's technique to get used to the instrument and for one's ear to get acclimated to the bass' tone/sound, but it is a rule of thumb.

If you're willing to spend the money, try getting a new set of strings and play them in for a month or so. Give it to another luthier for a good going-over. Just realize that odds say that the instrument won't change much, if at all. Regardless of what you decide to do, I'd start making some fliers and getting the word out about your bass potentially being on the market.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

You've only had it for six months. Sometimes it takes a while for a new bass to open up. At that price, from Romania, it should be a master quality instrument. Before you dump it, make sure it is played in. I have a newish Bulgarian carved instrument. It was kind of stiff a year and a half ago when new. The difference time can make is surprising.

I'd be inclined to give it a little more time, perhaps a year at least, try a different luthier's setup, different strings (less tension or more) before switching. It doesn't hurt to play other basses in the meantime. What part doesn't fit your hand? Do you mean the neck width / shape or the mensur? What was your former bass like?

I agree that trying different setup, strings, etc. might be a good start. If the sound is not desirable now, however, whatever changes occur when it "opens up" cannot be expected to be dramatic and usually are not. Personally, I have never witnessed time and playing turning an undesirable bass into a desirable one.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by kontrabass

Just realize that odds say that the instrument won't change much, if at all.

+1

[bassface747]

I know, I was hesitant to buy an instrument from my teacher. It's turning into a conflict of interest. There's not much around where I live, I tried out the other basses in the city that I could find, but the nearest major retailers would be about a 12-hour drive (I live on a raft in the ocean? No, just up in Canada) At the same time, it's a huge purchase and for that price, I want an instrument that I can't rip myself away from, not one that I am settling with.

I've switched the strings once, I have D'Addario Orchestrals on right now. The bow response isn't great - I find it very difficult to get a full sound when I draw the bow, it glances over the string. I never had this problem before in the student basses I played, and I don't when I play them now (I always use the same bow). Is this pretty normal for a new instrument? We've done some soundpost adjustment too, that's made a bit of a difference.

My issue is the size of the neck. Will I get used to that? I have smaller hands, I learnt on a bass with a small neck, and I definitely prefer that. I don't want to take any drastic measures on a bass that I'm sitting on the fence over, and affect it's value.

I was thinking of switching to solo strings to make it less stiff - who's tried this? I found it MUCH easier to play with the strings tuned down a whole step, so would solo strings react similarily in regular tuning? I'll go check out the strings threads.... I play jazz and classical more or less equally, if it helps.

I attached a picture, if anyone's interested.

[Phil Smith]

Is it possible for you to change to a set of strings that are the same type as the ones on the basses that you don't have arco problems with?

[Silversorcerer]

If the D'addarios are light tension, you are sort of at the end there, but if they are mediums and your bass responds better tuned down, try light tension D'ads before going to solos. We've all heard that "don't buy it for how it might sound later" line, but in this case you didn't buy it for any sound because you'd never heard it at all. You bought through your teacher whom you trusted to steer you right. I'm thinking now, the bass might start sounding better, but the neck isn't going to get smaller, nor your hand bigger.

In any case that was a huge investment to make on a new bass sight unseen. I think your teacher has taken advantage of your situation and that is unfortunate. Have you discussed how unsatisfactory the instrument is for you with your teacher? On a purchase in that price range, even from Romania, there should be some kind of approval period. I know travel is expensive, but you owe it to yourself now to spend a fraction of what you spent on the bass on getting to places where you can try several less expensive basses out. You might be able to trade up in playability without losing much. If you had flown to Romania, you could no doubt have had your pick of fine basses there for that kind of price. I don't mean to rub salt in what is definitely a wound, but I just want you to think about the real logistics of that kind of purchase. There is a huge mark up on anything imported from Eastern Europe. Traveling twelve hours is nothing if you have $15K to spend. If you really want to swap it out, take it with you and visit a well stocked bass shop in one of the larger US cities.

[drurb]

+1!!! on Silver's remarks. This all strikes me as just a bit more than odd. Is the neck over-sized or have you just become used to necks that are smaller than normal. If the latter, then you should get used to a neck that promotes proper technique. If not the latter, then ignore that remark.

You say the bow does not draw well over the strings. Something seems quite amiss here. I'd have that bass checked by an independent, highly reputable luthier as Sippy suggested. That, too, would cost only a fraction of the value of the bass.

I don't want to rub salt in the wound either but it is just bad advice to suggest that anyone spend $15k on a bass sight unseen and sound unheard. That is, unless one has the right to try it and have all funds returned if it is not satisfactory. If buying sight unseen and sound unheard is ever safe to do, it is in a much lower price bracket where there are relatively few quality instruments to be had and the better ones "bubble up" to the top of reviews and comments.

That being said, if the bass really is of the caliber of other $15k basses and it is set up properly, then the worst one should encounter is a bass that doesn't quite speak to his/her tastes-- not a bass that is unacceptable and which plays worse than a lower-cost school bass. Many of us here have carved basses that cost substantially less than $15k and we are not unhappy (nor are we ignorant of what is a good bass). I'm sorry, but something smells funny.

By the way, can you post higher resolution, more detailed photos? What shop in Romania made the bass?

[accutone]

As others have said, I would expect a 15K instrument to sound REALLY good on day one if played by a good musician. How does it sound when your teacher plays it? Also, keep in mind that the width of the neck is what it is, but the "feel" of the bass can be substantially altered by a luthier. You should get an independent appraisal of the instrument while you are having it set-up correctly. If you didn't get what you paid for, ask your parents to negotiate a solution with your teacher. (No offense, but he is unlikely to negotiate with a high school student.)

[greene]

[quote=bassface747;3656860]Hello all,

Don't get me wrong, it's solidly built, well constructed - but it doesn't fit my hand right, is stiff and unresponsive to me, and I honestly just don't like the sound.


Sell it.
Listen to what you've written here ...

"It doesn't fit your hand properly; you feel its unresponsive; and you don't like the sound."

I'd guess that for you this bass is history.
That doesn't mean its necessarily a bad instrument etc.
It just means it didn't work for you and that's nothing unique. It happens all the time.
Don't waste your time and energy with regret.
Sell it and find the instrument you'll be in love with.
Will you get $15K for this bass?
Maybe, if you can find that person who will fall in love with it, and you can believe he or she is out there. But you might have to take the loss.
Here's the good news.
Even if you took a loss of a few grand from the Romanian bass, you'll still find many choices of fine instruments available to you at the $10K level.

And finally regarding your teacher.
Well, can't say I disagree with your feeling about the conflict. This is something I've seen many many times nevertheless I think the best way to deal with it is first ask your teacher if he has another student or knows of someone who might want to buy the bass because - and explain it exactly as you have here ie doesn't fit your hand, unresponsive and you don't like the sound. Who can argue about any of that ? No one. If he has someone who might be interested, that's great since it will save you lots of trouble finding a buyer. If not, now he knows how you feel and there needn't be any awkwardness about your teacher student relationship. Your job will be to find another instrument but this time, it should be love at first sound. Use the experience to learn from and remember it could have just as easily gone the other way. You could have just as easily found a wonderful bass thru your teacher, but you didn't. Chalk it up and move on. But like any relationship gone sour, its best not to wallow too much about what might have been .. know what I mean? I promise you, its not the price that will make the love affair between you and your next bass. Don't use that as a barometer of anything. When it moves you, even if its half of what you previously spent, so what? Just have someone take a look at it with you and if it all checks out, fall madly in love and enjoy every moment.

Good luck

[drurb]

I think, in general, this is fine advice. The problem lies in the fact that it is difficult to tell whether this is just a matter of preference or whether the instrument itself falls far short of what is to be expected for $15k. If that's the case, then the loss could be staggering and, well, it may be quite difficult (both financially and psychologically) to move on from that. I think it would be a wise move to have a qualified luthier make the call. If it is simply a matter of taste, then everything greene says applies. In any case, I think he's quite correct that this is not your "baby." It's hard to believe that setup work will make it so unless it currently has a poor setup. That doesn't seem to be likely.

[bassface747]

Thanks for all the words.

I should clarify - I did play the bass before I bought it. I was struck more by looks than by sound, which is dangerous and certainly different from how I would usually react.

It is a fine sounding instrument - everybody who's heard it thinks it sounds wonderful. I don't think the neck is oversize, just bigger than what feels comfortable to me. But to me it doesn't sing....

I think I've already made a decision, but it's hard to admit it. There were other people who wanted to buy this very same instrument - I wonder if they would still be interested.

I have to take some more pictures - I'll do that tonight.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by bassface747

Thanks for all the words.

I should clarify - I did play the bass before I bought it. I was struck more by looks than by sound, which is dangerous and certainly different from how I would usually react.

It is a fine sounding instrument - everybody who's heard it thinks it sounds wonderful. I don't think the neck is oversize, just bigger than what feels comfortable to me. But to me it doesn't sing....

I think I've already made a decision, but it's hard to admit it. There were other people who wanted to buy this very same instrument - I wonder if they would still be interested.

I have to take some more pictures - I'll do that tonight.

I need a scorecard here. You described the bass as being stiff and unresponsive and having a sound you do not like. You said it is difficult for you to get a full arco sound on this bass but not on others. Then you describe it as a fine sounding instrument that, to you, doesn't sing. Whatsmore, others seem to like this "dull, unresponsive, and expensive" bass. Hmm. Now, have you ever played a bass that sings for you? The answer would be very telling, indeed. At the very least, it sounds like you would benefit greatly from some objective advice from a good luthier.

[Don Carrigan]

Hi Bassface: First check out the perfect, perfect, perfect positioning of your bridge. Is it ABSOLUTELY vertical? Are the feet absolutely evenly positioned between the NOTCHES on the F holes? Is the right bridge foot far enough away from the sound post so the belly can resonate? I have a "priceless" Prescott that I loaned to the Boston Handle & Haydn Society. The bassist had a luthier spend THREE (3) hours adjusting the bridge and sound post. Also, very good basses often develop weird responses, usually wolf tones around G#, but other notes, too. Recently my bass sounded "dead" on the D and G string. My luthier found the trouble is a few minutes. The string BELOW the bridge was resonating on F# which matched a damaged spot on my D string. Being a cheapskate, I have purchased and affixed used strings. (Don't do that!) The D string was damaged and the G string was closely sympathic to the F# wolf tone. It took new strings and a wolf tone device to bring back the precious, priceless tone. I wouldn't give up yet. If your bass is new, maybe the manufacturer affixed the cheapest strings he could find. Here's my 5 string Prescott: http://home.earthlink.net/~prescottv...TTdonSMALL.jpg

[rftbass]

Hi Baseface,

My guess is you are in Fairfield County (how about filling out your profile?).
Hear are some of the “local experts”. My apologies if I left anyone out.

Take them your bass for a look over and advice.
Play their inventory.

Arnold Schnitzer at http://aesbass.com/
Lou DiLeone (Orange, CT)
Gary Upton at http://www.uptonbass.com/
Zachary Martin at http://www.zacharysmartin.com/
David Gage at http://davidgage.com/
Jeff Bollbach at http://www.jeffbollbach.com/
Wm Merchant at http://www.merchantbass.com/

[drurb]

Originally Posted by rftbass

Hi Baseface,

My guess is you are in Fairfield County (how about filling out your profile?).

Now, what made you guess that?