Strange buzzing sound when i play my A

[Stephen Edwards]

When I play my A string pizz on my bass there is a buzzing or rattling that sounds like it is coming from the inside. My guess is that it is the end pin or the soundpost is loose. Any help would be appreciated!

[fretlessman71]

Is it just on the open string, or anywhere on the A?...

I've had the A string key come loose from the shaft before - it required a clamp to squeeze it back together, and the vibration stopped.

[Stephen Edwards]

It's just on the open string. And I just played it with my end pin all the way in and I'm pretty sure it's the end pin.

[Silly_Bassist]

Buzzing can mean quite a few things, actually. I work in a repair shop and I've learned a few things about what makes a buzz. And my D string is actually buzzing at the moment, so I've been going down the list of possible causes.

It could mean that your fingerboard needs to be scooped. Uneven spots can cause buzzing on open strings or certain spots on the fingerboard.

It's likely not your endpin because a specific string or note usually means a specific problem. The endpin is more likely to cause an overall rattle than a buzz. The sound post probably isn't the cause either. A loose sound post is a bit noticeable since they have the nasty habit of falling over.

You might have an open seam. Or the buzzing might mean there's something faulty about your A string. Not all strings are made equal.

Also, check your tuners. Sometimes they become loose and rattle.

[Stephen Edwards]

well it's not so buzzy as it is a rattle.

[D McCartney]

So your A sounds like a Bee?

If you can't figure it out, you might go see TalkBass's own Jake deVilliers, in Crescent Beach.

[Silly_Bassist]

Hmm...

So the rattle only exists when you play open A?

Or does it rattle when you play open strings in general?

If it is your endpin, you should check if anything is loose on your endpin. You should also check the fit of your endpin. The rattle could because the endpin is not properly fitted and is now moving around.

[GerardSamija]

I'd have to contradict that last a bit. A too-long endpin sticking inside the bass all the way is VERY likely to rattle in sympathy with a certain note, which one varying according to the natural frequency of vibration of a particular length and diameter of endpin. Hollow endpins and solid rods alike can be guilty here, and I have seen many of each resonating on just one note. Of course if this is the problem it will likely also resonate on octaves of the main frequency, but one particular octave will be loudest. Sawing a few inches off the endpin is one solution, though if it's not enough then the vibration might pick up on a different note. Another solution involves padding the inner end of the endpin plug with cork, something which comes stock on Gotz and some other endpins. Plastic endpin cones are more likely to cause problems than wooden ones.

An open seam is also a very likely suspect, and sometimes very hard to spot. Best method to find one is to damp the strings, then wrap all around your edges of belly and back with knuckles until something sounds wrong. Lift the edge in that spot and if it lifts a bit you've found the culprit.

[simonwilmer]

"A" nut slot too low?

[D McCartney]

Originally Posted by GerardSamija

An open seam is also a very likely suspect, and sometimes very hard to spot. Best method to find one is to damp the strings, then wrap all around your edges of belly and back with knuckles until something sounds wrong. Lift the edge in that spot and if it lifts a bit you've found the culprit.

If you can't figure it out, you might go see TalkBass's own Jake deVilliers, in Crescent Beach.

Apologies Gerard, I didn't know you were a luthier in BC or would have included you.

[Stephen Edwards]

My A does not sound like a bee. The rattling only happens on open A and A on the E string. I said earlier that I think it is my end pin because I played with it all the way in, but I forgot to tell you that when it was all the way in it didn't rattle.

[Martin Sheridan]

Usually if the endpin is all the way in, it is more likely to rattle. See my thread: things that make bass buzz.

Sometimes the slot that the pin goes through is too open, the pin doesn't fit well and it buzzes. Anyway there are a couple of dozen things that will cause buzzing.

[GerardSamija]

No worries. I didn't even notice that the bassist asking about this was from Vancouver! Just an interesting problem worth offering some suggestions towards resolving. Nothing wrong with recommending Jake's work, and I don't mind being left out. Sooner or later I do work for most bassists around here anyway.

[Stephen Edwards]

I just brought in my bass to Prussin Music and they sawed down the end pin and voila! No more rattling!

[Jazzman]

Good news! I have the same problem on my bass on the A (any octave) but the end pin hack down didn't fix it.

[GerardSamija]

If it's rattling on any A (or any particular note an on every octave to some degree) then I'd also consider the possibility of something loose inside the bass which matches that frequency. A loose end on the bassbar is something a lot of folks jump to thinking right away, but that's actually not too common. I've seen maybe 10 loose bassbars causing buzzing in many hundreds of basses with buzzes. A loose lining strip is sometimes the cause. Might again be a loose edge joint. Or a block can even come loose, though that's less likely to have a particular favoured note to buzz on unless it's just a small sliver of a corner block. Sometimes if a belly crack has been too heavily patched using large cleats, those come loose with subsequent seasonal humidity changes and then become like little tuning forks. Might be useful to look into the lower belly area with a good LED gooseneck light and a large inspection mirror for any loose cleats.

The list of possibilities for buzzes is really long. Endwires not properly routed over saddles or rubbing just barely on the underside of the tailpiece. Improperly fretted break-point on the upper end of the tailpiece - such as is usually found on the Dvorak line of basses for instance, where there is no fret at all but rather a valley carved and then the leading edge left as a false fret - leading to strings vibrating on the upper end of the tailpiece. That one's easily fixed with a length of 1/8" dowel under the strings to get them off the tailpiece. Loose tuner hardware can buzz. So can a funky endpin thumbscrew, ferrule, screwed-in endpin point, shims stuffed in around the endpin cone when it's loose.... Endless.

[anniemcu]

I have a similar situation with my new-to-me Knilling half size. When I put the endpin in to the height I want for sitting on a stool and playing, it tends to rattle when I play C on the A string... but if I put it in or out one more notch, it doesn't.

[Jazzman]

Originally Posted by GerardSamija

Or a block can even come loose, though that's less likely to have a particular favoured note to buzz on unless it's just a small sliver of a corner block.

I think you guess it there. If I touch the upper treble side corner block with my soundpost adjuster, the buzzing stops. If I remove the soudpost adjuster, the buzzing resumes. ...now I wonder if this can be repaired without taking the top off.

[GerardSamija]

That must be awkward, trying to apply pressure to the corner block through the f-hole while playing a note to get a buzz. Not exactly standard bass technique.

I do a lot of repairs through the f-holes. Taking a belly off is problematic for a few reasons, though of course it gives the best access to all interior elements. It takes a longer time to get the bass back in circulation while taking up more of my time, costs more money to the player, and risks new injuries to the belly in the removal process. Frequent removal of bellies is the main reason for re-edging, a major and expensive bit of surgery. So yeah, it might be doable through the f-holes.

If you can get enough light inside (a string of LED lights works very well, and costs less than $10 from most hardware stores) and use a large enough mirror, you may be able to spot the loose joint or sliver coming off the block or loose lining and then figure out a way to get glue into it and apply pressure if needed. If it's just a very narrow gap, glue alone (any brush taped to the end of a coathanger wire) may be enough to put a stop to the buzz. If a clamp is needed, sometimes a long thin rod of wood - perhaps a 1/4" dowel - can be wedged into place against an opposing surface inside, shifted into place just a second or two after brushing glue into the area. Measuring outside the bass and some dry runs for practice make such a procedure gradually less frustrating.

A growing favourite method of through-the-f-hole repair for me is the use of raw 100% linen, put into place dry (has to be washed without soap twice to remove any sizing starch, then dried flat) then saturated with strong hide glue. It's a very flexible technique which can strongly hold many sorts of cracks together. In cases where belly cracks are not sitting level, linen alone is not good enough, so tiny (less than 1cm square and less than 2mm thick, tapered a bit at the edges) spruce cleats glued across the crack first provide the needed leveling strength. Linen over those give abundant anti-separation strength, where the small cleats themselves won't effectively resist seasonal shrinkage cycles. But that's not your problem with this case... still, a bit of linen might be just the thing if there is a loose bit hanging off your corner block which proves otherwise difficult to glue. And if the block wants to come loose from the rib, then it will not likely re-glue and stay glued without removing the block and cleaning away all glue and perhaps re-fitting the joint, so gluing and then bridging the joint with a couple of small pieces of linen may save you that major surgery. If a later repairer wishes to do a more thorough job while the bass is open anyway, it's simple to soak loose the linen with hot wet cloth and then scrape it away. Just takes a bit of patience. Usually no more than 15 minutes' effort to get it gone in any small area.

When working with linen or just about any gluing operation through the f-holes, one important element is keeping the glue side down. That is to say, let gravity help you, don't try to fight it. Hide glue tends to become a drippy mess all over the inside if you don't have the gluing area bottom-most. So rigging the bass in suspension can be the biggest trick here, and a ceiling hook or two can be of great assistance.

[Jazzman]

Originally Posted by GerardSamija

That must be awkward, trying to apply pressure to the corner block through the f-hole while playing a note to get a buzz. Not exactly standard bass technique.

It is really quite simple...just put the bass on an Ingles stand and pluck from in front.

Thanks a lot for the info!!!