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10-26-2005, 07:50 AM
|  | Leveraging Zymurgy | | Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: AL/GA | | | Strange old Kay...solid top???
Has anybody here EVER heard of a Kay with a factory solid/carved top? I haven't, and neither has Roger Stowers at kaybass.com. I got a '39 Orchestra model in a trade earlier this week, and it appears for all the world to have a solid top. Everything else about the bass is standard Kay stuff. The fella that owned it for many years was a musician at ABC studios for a long time (worked on the "Soupy Sales" show, and others), and he now plays Dixieland jazz. He says the bass was special order but can't say about the top either...he's not the original owner. Very strange. It's been refinished, obviously by a pro or somebody that knew their stuff, and I wonder if the top replacement was the reason for that.
Anyhow, I doubt I'll ever document anything specifically, so I guess I can treat it as an oddity. Can't figure out why anyone would go to the expense to put a carved top on a Kay, but here it is in my music room. Sounds great, but really different from other ply basses I've heard and owned. The back has a single piece of veneer on the outside, which looks really nice, and the scroll looks to be carved and not a glued-on rosette.
Can anyone shed any light here? Pics Here.....
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10-26-2005, 08:49 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Detroit, MI | | Why? I dunno... why not? 
Never heard of a *factory* carved top... It's not the most unusual thing to find carved replacement tops on ply basses; and example would be the solid top Branstetter carved for an old H.N. White King bass, now owned by a TB member, Chef.
The rosettes look glued to me, though it looks as though someone may have applied a little filler to smooth out the witness line. A give-away is the dead-flat sides of the pegbox/scroll.
Cool find! |
10-26-2005, 09:41 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2001 Location: Nashville TN | | | Did you look at the cross-section of the wood in the F hole? That's usually the giveaway. The wear on the edges seem not to fray like plys. Looks factory so far, or a good add-on. The finish could be a redo, but the Orchestra models have a different look about them. If it's original you could have pretty much a one of a kind. Thanks for sharing the find.
Ike |
10-26-2005, 09:49 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: SE Wisconsin | | | I looked at a fully carved "Selmer" bass once, which Roger confirmed was made by Kay, so I imagine that it's not unreasonable to think that Kay produced carved-top instruments under their own name as well.
The Selmer bass, BTW, had a three-piece neck, which Roger said was also indicative of earlier Kays.
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10-26-2005, 09:50 AM
| | Leveraging Zymurgy | | Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: AL/GA | | Here is a photo of the f-hole...I think I posted it earlier in another thread, on a couple of different boards. There are some places on where the edges of the top have worn on the sides of the bouts, and they show no signs of plys either.
Brent, I think you had commented earlier on the apparent thickness of the top, based on this F-hole photo...in reality, the top is thinner than the ply back. I dunno why this photo makes it look so thick. 
Last edited by mchildree : 10-26-2005 at 10:12 AM.
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10-26-2005, 11:33 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: NYC | | | Can't shed any light on the "originality" issue, but it does seem to be a not uncommon repair. Many years ago, doing a gig in Brevard, I was put up at retired architect's. His wife played piano and he played bass and had a Kay that had been "re-topped". By Tom Kelishek no less...
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10-26-2005, 03:24 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA USA | | | These days, with vintage Kays costing so much for dubious reasons and hybrid basses that sound better being relatively affordable this type of substitution would not make too much sense. But pedal back just a few years when old Kays could be picked up for a couple hundred $ and then it makes more sense. All you have to do to have a hybrid is pick up an old Kay and get a good luthier to carve you a top and put it on. That had to be one of the most economically feasible ways of getting a carved top sound a few years ago. And if you already owned the Kay, it was likely the least expensive upgrade to carved without the hassle of getting used to the feel of a different instrument.
In any case, that's a great type of "Kay" to pick up in a trade, IMO. Vintage '39 with a carved top. Carved tops make a huge difference in the sound. I've always thought Kay used pretty thick exterior veneers compared to many of the imported plywood instruments, and I've always been a little partial to the gamba shape of the C models. Very nice find.
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10-26-2005, 06:40 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Denver, Co. | | | Amazing!
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10-26-2005, 07:33 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA | | mcchildree, can i buy that pickup!!  |
10-26-2005, 07:53 PM
| | Jim Stiel | | Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Lake Orion, MI | | | What a crime!
How could anyone destroy that beautiful Kay bass sunburst!?!? 
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10-27-2005, 11:58 AM
| | Leveraging Zymurgy | | Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: AL/GA | | | Eric,
I can see the plys in your photo...but there's no place on mine where it's that clear. The insides of the f-holes (see photo above) are what makes me think it's solid...you can see the grain running across the edge of the plate in some places.
I looked underneath the top with a mirror last night. There's a crack near one of the f-holes that's been repaired with cleats, and the crack is visible on top and underside, and the edges of the crack don't match up exactly....by the same margin on both sides. I can't see how a ply top would do that.
Thanks for your replies, guys. Guess it's an oddball with a questionable history. Fits me well enough, I reckon!
Last edited by mchildree : 10-27-2005 at 12:00 PM.
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10-27-2005, 06:42 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Denver, Co. | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by eroy | What great pics Eric!! Is that just a Bb digital camera or something special? I've never seen detailed shots with that kind of clarity. Thanks.
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10-27-2005, 07:20 PM
|  | Smile more, ok?
Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine Moderator | | Join Date: May 2004 Location: Columbia MO | | Yep. I really like my old King...neat find Mike! Quote: |
Originally Posted by Brent Norton Why? I dunno... why not?
Never heard of a *factory* carved top... It's not the most unusual thing to find carved replacement tops on ply basses; and example would be the solid top Branstetter carved for an old H.N. White King bass, now owned by a TB member, Chef.
The rosettes look glued to me, though it looks as though someone may have applied a little filler to smooth out the witness line. A give-away is the dead-flat sides of the pegbox/scroll.
Cool find! |
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10-27-2005, 09:03 PM
|  | Registered User
Vice President: Upton Bass String Instrument Co. | | Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Warwick, RI & Stonington, CT | | | Hey Paul, It's just an ok digital camera...kinda old school. BUT...it has a macro setting and manual focus...I think its the focus that is the key. Auto focus just tries to damn hard to think for you and you end up with blurry shots. |
10-28-2005, 09:52 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by mchildree ...but here it is in my music room... | So your music room is the great outdoors?
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10-28-2005, 10:33 AM
| | Leveraging Zymurgy | | Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: AL/GA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Eric Jackson So your music room is the great outdoors? | HA! Sometimes it is! Actually those photos are from the previous owner. |
10-29-2005, 04:10 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA USA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by jstiel How could anyone destroy that beautiful Kay bass sunburst!?!? | Yeah, right. Just a hint of facetiousness there.
Perhaps the original sunburst top got gored by a bull or some other such ill fate and this top replacement was an upgrade/repair. There are many ways to explain it, but if it sounds good, plays good, looks good, its a bonus to have a hybrid. Quote: |
Originally Posted by eroy Auto focus just tries to damn hard to think for you and you end up with blurry shots. | Professional photographers call those oughta-focus lenses, as in they oughta focus, but they don't.
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Last edited by Silversorcerer : 10-29-2005 at 04:19 PM.
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10-30-2005, 05:16 PM
| | Leveraging Zymurgy | | Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: AL/GA | | | Well, I got a big mirror out and checked the underside of the top. There are definite identifiable grain patterns on the top side that are duplicated on the underside, including the seam in the middle. I guess that would pretty much confirm that it's a solid top. Love to find out (and have it documented somehow) that it came from the factory that way...my kid's college would be taken care of! Guess that won't ever happen, so I'll just enjoy it for the strange beast it is. |
10-31-2005, 07:29 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Detroit, MI | | | You might contact Cal at Engelhardt... He has been there since the latter Kay days, and may be able to shed some light on whether any factory solid-tops went out the door. |  | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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