student 1/2 upright vs. 34" or 30" electric

Marsdeb · #1 04-07-2008, 01:14 PM

My 11 year old son has been playing a 1/2 size upright for about a year. He is in orchestra and next year will enter jazz band. I am considering getting him an electric bass for convenience. One would be for orchestra and the other for the jazz band. Should I be looking at a 34" or 30" electric bass, which size will scale better to the 1/2 size upright? And should I get a fretted or a fretless electric bass? Apart from the size issue, I am also on the fence about whether a fretted bass might in fact help him with pitch and reinforce his confidence or vice versa. I want to maintain the emphasis on the upright but I know he will want an electric bass at some point. Please share your thoughts.

Thank you.

Stage dad

drurb · #2 04-07-2008, 01:56 PM

I see the DB and EB as two different, but related, instruments. Why not have him play the DB in the jazz band as well as the orchestra? That will reinforce and broaden his playing on the instrument you wish to emphasize. Convenience? Sorry, that's not really in my decision space. I started hauling around a DB about 35 years ago.

I really can't answer about which EB would be best. I would give up the idea of "scaling." Again, they're different instruments and , in my opinion, it would make little sense to try and match the span of fingering between the two, especially when you consider that the fingering is typically different across the two.

mattfong · #3 04-07-2008, 03:06 PM

buy him an electric upright maybe?

lfh · #4 04-15-2008, 07:20 AM

Your reasoning about a fretted bass guitar makes sense in my opinion:

The frets will help visualizing the positions also on the double bass, as well as provide a reference for ear training. Furthermore, I don't think it's advisable to tackle two fretless instruments with different string lengths and fingerings at that stage in learning.

As to the EB scale choice, I'd say it depends:

If the objective is to learn the EB "properly" and employ the accepted 1-2-3-4 fingering (one finger per fret), my guess (I'm not a bass teacher) is that a 30" scale is the way to go to allow for this for a child of that age. (Factor in stepping up to a 34" when he's in his teens, but decent quality EB:s are rather inexpensive, so this shouldn't be a big deal.)

If however the EB merely will be an occasional substitute for the DB, you might go with the standard 34" scale, whereby he could use traditional DB fingerings (1-2-4).

Ideally the latter is something that should be discussed with his bass teacher.

HTH,
Fredrik

PS
I applaud your forward thinking and encouragement for him to take up both instruments: Probably it's "inevitable" that he'll want to try EB too, so it's good to have a strategy for it. Also it's definitely an advantage to be able to play both instruments, and for him to find heroes in both camps will certainly widen his musical views.

uprightben · #5 04-15-2008, 08:20 AM

I have a twelve year old girl who plays 'cello, and I know that if I put another instrument in her hands, that would be the end of her 'cello studies. (she's already abandoned the piano) EB and DB really are two different instruments, when people try to use tecnique from one on to the other they usually just end up with tendonitis. The instrument of choice for most jazz settings is DB, espescially in a school setting. I think the best possible outcome if you did get your son an EB for jazz is that he will only be able to play classical on the DB, and will only be able to play the EB in jazz. Now, if you want to get him an EB to rock out on with his friends, go for the 30" scale and turn him loose, but for school, I'd keep it strictly DB.

droo · #6 04-15-2008, 10:10 AM

I'd be worried that the ease of playability (and rock-out factor) of the electric bass would cause neglect of the upright.

As someone who gave up serious instrumental studies at 16 to play electric guitar and bass, that's my experience (although thankfully I found my way to the double bass since

)

I second the comment that using upright for the Jazz band would be a good way to reinforce his skills (and extend them to develop a good jazz pizzicato and awareness of chord-based playing)...

My 2 cents worth is: beware that the electric bass will become more appealing in the short term and take over his attentions!

lfh · #7 04-15-2008, 10:26 AM

It's good to be aware of the potential pitfalls brought up above. Just a few comments:

1. It's absolutely crucial that the kid has a DB teacher.
2. DB technique on an EB is generally safe (but not vice versa!), although not ideal.
3. IMHO whether a child drops out of an instrument should not be entirely up to the kid...
4. To avoid the "EB for jazz, DB for classical" scenario mentioned, make sure the DB is setup such that it's playable and enjoyable also in the jazz context: Some orchestral type strings can be near hopeless for pizz in a jazz setting (not enough volume, too little sustain, too high tension, ...).

Gmoots · #8 04-15-2008, 11:10 PM

There are many good ideas here. I have been teaching at the college level for 31 years and have seen it all. If you get an EB, get a long scale...34". Consider, what kind of music does the kid listen to? The answer should guide you to fretted or fretless. I would also move on to a 5/8 DB ASAP. Keep him reading and taking legit lessons. He will get plenty of licks on the street.