Student bassist wanting to seriously start playing double bass in Jazz Ensemble!

jcuesta · #1 09-15-2007, 02:54 PM

Hi all,

I'm new here(obviously), and I had a few questions regarding the double bass.

Some info about me: I am currently a student in High School that plays in Jazz Ensemble and String Orchestra. I've been playing electric bass for a while now and I wanted to make a transition into playing double bass..primarily for Jazz Ensemble. I play the double bass in Orchestra so know the basics(notes, tonation, fingering patterns, etc), and I'm slowly improving my bowing skills. I had rented an upright over the summer for about 4 months, and I wanted to get back into it, as my teacher is more than willing to start teaching it again. As for now, I am playing the electric bass in jazz band.

I plan on purchasing an upright at around Christmas time this year, and I was wondering what models you would suggest? I want a decent, playable, lasting bass. And yes, I understand that they are not cheap. I am willing to shell out that $1k-2k for one, which is basically my budget. I am only 5"5-5"6 if that helps. I don't really know specific brands to look out for but I've heard good things about Kay, Endgeldhart(sp?), and Shen? And I've been told to stay away from Palantino basses. I was also wondering about how to properly amplify the double bass? Is playing it through a combo amp ok? Or does it need a special set-up/gear for it to be amplified? We have 3 uprights at school that all have pickups and can plug into amps. Were using some crappy fender combo amp that I hope we can get rid of, and invest into a better amp later on. But anyways, any help would greatly be appreciated.

Best,
JC

barbarbass · #2 09-17-2007, 05:46 AM

I'm posting here because I basically have exactly the same question. I've been playing electric bass (4, fretted) for about a dozen years now, and I'm looking to switch over to the "dark side" of the bass.

I, too, have heard good things about Kay, Engelhardt, and Upton, but I am still curious.

mesmithnm · #3 09-17-2007, 07:58 AM

From Google Maps, looks like you're right across the bay from Steve Swan ( http://www.steveswanguitars.com/. I haven't done business with Steve, but his posts on TB have always been informative and helpful at pointing prospective bassists to qualified dealers in their areas and it seems like he would be a great resource for a bassist looking for a quality starter instrument.

MingusAmongUs · #4 09-17-2007, 08:12 AM

Start here:
DB Newbie FAQ
(if I didn't do it, someone else would have)

You're on the right track with brand names but keep in mind every bass is different to some extent -- you can find a lemon with a good name, and vice-versa. Whatever you get will need to be set up, and if you buy thru a reputable luthier, they may include that in the price, but a retailer usually will not.

It's worth pointing out that many Kays have been priced out of your range now. They are very desirable in some circles, and while you may come across one now and then under $2K, I've seen many at much higher prices.

Then add to your list of possibilities: Eberle, Upton, Christopher, Strunal

CamMcIntyre · #5 09-18-2007, 05:48 AM

I agree with Mingus on this one. Definately check out the newbie links-this is why we have them.

As far as the Kays go-i had a nice talk w/Mark Sonksen yesterday when i dropped off my bow for a rehair and confirmed much of what Mingus has said. Kays are collectible in many circles as a piece of Americana/Folk History on top of the guys that play them in jazz.

If you can find a reputable bass shop in your area, i highly recommend checking with them. Otherwise-i'd look into Shen, Christopher, or Upton based off of what i have read here. I shy away from recommending Engelharts based off of personal experience with regards to the necks. The one that i played at school had a neck that felt wrong to me. Very thin and had a defined "u" shape to it. Except the bottom of the "u" was flattened quite a bit. So more of a rounded off rectangle.

Best of Luck. Take your time and it will be worth it.

Ben Rolston · #6 09-18-2007, 09:49 AM

Play the basses! Try really hard not to buy a bass sight unheard. Other than that I agree with Cam, Englehardts have a nasty neck on them. I played on one for about 2 years, and when I got my NS Cleveland I discovered how tired the thin neck was making my hand.

Upton's are great though.

drurb · #7 09-18-2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Rolston

Play the basses! Try really hard not to buy a bass sight unheard. Other than that I agree with Cam, Englehardts have a nasty neck on them. I played on one for about 2 years, and when I got my NS Cleveland I discovered how tired the thin neck was making my hand.

Upton's are great though.

+1, especially about the Engel necks. I say this recognizing that this is my opinion and not wishing to rile up the Engel fans.

jcuesta · #8 09-18-2007, 09:30 PM

Hey guys, thanks for the prompt responses! I really appreiciate it.
That's weird, the Engeldhart we use( The the bass player and I) in Jazz is perfectly fine. It's quite easy to play on. But I'm def. going to check out my local bass shops(Steve Swan), etc. What scale should I be looking for? Just a reg 3/4? I want to still be playing the bass all through college, and the rest of my life, so I am def. commited to investing the right amount of money into one.

CamMcIntyre · #9 09-18-2007, 09:43 PM

If you want this to be your "one" bass, i say save up more and drop around $5000-6000k for everything at least.

I'm saying this to you, because i feel like i've found my "one bass" and it wasn't all that big of a jump to it [price wise] from the $2k range.

Kevin Hsieh · #10 09-18-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamMcIntyre

If you want this to be your "one" bass, i say save up more and drop around $5000-6000k for everything at least.

I'm saying this to you, because i feel like i've found my "one bass" and it wasn't all that big of a jump to it [price wise] from the $2k range.

+1

I was at first thinking about a mail-order bass like the uptons or engles. but I held out, and waited for a couple months to get more funds and so i could convince my parents to give me a interest free loan (don't you love those) ended up with a beautiful chinese bass for a little under 4k. I love the sound and don't really see myself leaving her for a while.

play as many basses as you can. listen to as many great bass recordings as you can. make sure you know what sound you want when you get in there. find a local luthier

CamMcIntyre · #11 09-19-2007, 05:54 AM

As far as what scale/size to get-3/4 is the normal full size bass. However, the bass sizes are not nearly as consistent as they are in bass guitar land. The bass i play is a large 3/4 small 7/8s w/a 42 inch string scale. I love it. Other guys at school have basses that are also 3/4s but have very different body sizes.

This is where actually playing the basses will come in handy. If you have a strong preference towards one kind of shoulders vs another-that will come into play too. When i was looking for a bass, i didn't consider that too much as i ended up doing an online bass [New Standard Cleveland] and went with it. I haven't regretted getting it for a second. I'm actually looking forward to my first class being over so i can practice for awhile [gonna skip class #2 today to get a bit more practice time].

drurb · #12 09-19-2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Hsieh

I was at first thinking about a mail-order bass like the uptons or engles. but I held out...

Now hold on there Babalooee! (Too young to remember that?). I don't think of the Uptons as "mail-order" basses. Upton is a dedicated bass shop that just happens to also do a fair amount of long-distance sales and shipping. The finish work and setup is anything but cookie-cutter and the quality, IMO, surpasses an Engel by leaps and bounds. In addition, while most of the press they receive here centers around their lower-end basses, their own Professor goes for substantially more than the $4k you paid (and, IMO, is worth every penny and more). Please don't misunderstand me. I am not suggesting that you did not make the right choice for you. Far from it! It sounds like you found an instrument that speaks to you and that you love. My only quibble is with suggesting that the Uptons are low-end instruments and that "holding out" for a $4k bass is, in general, a better choice. While they may not "speak" to you or another individual, those Professors are really something. I have one on order that will replace my fully-carved that would be untouchable for $4k.

Kevin Hsieh · #13 09-19-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

Now hold on there Babalooee! (Too young to remember that?). I don't think of the Uptons as "mail-order" basses. Upton is a dedicated bass shop that just happens to also do a fair amount of long-distance sales and shipping. The finish work and setup is anything but cookie-cutter and the quality, IMO, surpasses an Engel by leaps and bounds. In addition, while most of the press they receive here centers around their lower-end basses, their own Professor goes for substantially more than the $4k you paid (and, IMO, is worth every penny and more). Please don't misunderstand me. I am not suggesting that you did not make the right choice for you. Far from it! It sounds like you found an instrument that speaks to you and that you love. My only quibble is with suggesting that the Uptons are low-end instruments and that "holding out" for a $4k bass is, in general, a better choice. While they may not "speak" to you or another individual, those Professors are really something. I have one on order that will replace my fully-carved that would be untouchable for $4k.

in no way was i talking down upton. I totally agree that they are a great company. i'm sorry if mail order bass connotes the fact that they're a low end instrument. i didn't mean that at all. by mail order bass, i merely tried to express the fact that you would not see it, you would not hear it, and you would not know what string combinations work for the bass.

i almost turned away from the bass i own due to the fact that it sounded dead when it had obligatos on it. but with a set of spirocores, i fell in love with it.

back to addressing the OP, if you are anywhere near upton at any time, i strongly encourage you to go to the store and try the basses before making any decision. from what i've heard, they're amazing and the customer service is top notch. but being originally on the west coast when i wanted my bass, i didn't have that luxury

p.s. there's gotta be someone in the bay area with an upton. call upton and see if there are any purchases in your area

drurb · #14 09-19-2007, 04:14 PM

Seems we agree.

jcuesta · #15 09-19-2007, 11:52 PM

Hmm, well in that case I'm going to have to get that "one" bass later on...probably in college or something. But for now, I'll stay in my budget. I'm for sure going to score on around December when I have enough funds, so I have plenty of time...and like yall suggested, I'll be checking out local shops and play with as my basses as I can

Any more suggestions/tips/whatever feel free!

-JC

jcuesta · #16 09-19-2007, 11:57 PM

Hmm....just saw this in the marketplace:
1950s German upright for sale, 39" scale, $3500/bo

I'm guessing a 39" scale would be good cause I have small hands...I'll have to check it out

Kevin Hsieh · #17 09-19-2007, 11:58 PM

hey jc

what's your budget? there's got to be some TBer in that area that can point you in the right direction and maybe even go with you when you go to the shop to play THE bass you want

jcuesta · #18 09-20-2007, 12:08 AM

hi kevin

my budget is around 1800K-2500K on a fully set up, ready to go, long lasting, great sounding, etc etc double bass. is it steve swan your talking about? if so, im gonna check out his shop sometime when i have time.

-jc

Kevin Hsieh · #19 09-20-2007, 12:14 AM

Steve Swan is said to have some great instruments. I'd recommend you enlisting another bass player to stand from afar and listen to it and then switch roles. I had the luck of running into a really nice guy at World of Strings who played my bass for me. What sounds bad in the bandstand doesn't necessarily sound bad in the audience.

2k will give you a great instrument. No worries about that ONE bass. For me, having that ONE bass means picking it up and having no complaints. It doesn't have to be pricey. You just have to play it and if it makes you smile...

ok enough sappy bass talk.

best of luck.

pics are a must

mesmithnm · #20 09-20-2007, 08:21 AM

The main reason I suggested trying Steve Swan's shop is because he's always been fair and informative (and friendly!) in his TB postings - If he's the same in person, then at least it will be a good educational experience to visit Steve. I think you could get some good first-hand experience playing different basses and also get some information as to the resources (luthiers, instructors, players) available in the Bay area.

The basses mentioned here (the Uptons, New Standards, etc) are all considered first rate, but if you can find a local shop you like and build a good working relationship you'll be way ahead when you need repair, adjustments, or upgrades. For a newbie especially, I think it would be wise to have a local resource to help you through the entire process. If not Steve, then search TB for other resources in the Bay area.

Good Luck!