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  #1  
Old 04-17-2008, 04:04 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Talk to me about your Upton tops

I have a Hawkes laminate that was made a little under a year and a half ago. The top is sagging significantly and the curve in it is becoming more and more pronounced, with parts of the F hole carvings falling pretty far.

Anyone else experience this? And did the Upton shop tell you it was normal like they told me?
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  #2  
Old 04-17-2008, 06:21 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kansas City area
My Hybrid began to sink a bit in the year and a half I owned it. Normal? I'm surprised they would tell you that.

Do you have pics?
  #3  
Old 04-17-2008, 08:29 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: massachusetts
upton lami top

I have a three year old Upton jazz/bluegrass lami. The thin strip of wood at the F hole on the treble side started to "curl" down within a year and would vary a bit with the season/humidity. I didn't worry about it much nor did my teacher. Two months ago the top under the treble bridge foot started to sink down noticably and I got some buzzing from the low action. I saw a luthier who adjusted the soundpost to be closer to the bridge foot. It reduced the sink and has made the bass sound better than it ever has. All for $30. I would certainly consider having it looked at. I'm hoping it will not progress. I wouldn't call it normal. You might ask Gary Upton about it, he has been helpful to me.
  #4  
Old 04-18-2008, 09:43 PM
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Vice President: Upton Bass String Instrument Co.
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Warwick, RI & Stonington, CT
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HI guys, I thought I would chime in here.

Well...I can certainly put myself in your shoes. A year or two down the road the top of your bass does not look like it did the day you bought it. I would ask questions too. I have a bass in the shop right now (maybe it is yours Snarf?) with a settled top. We are putting a new post in and adjusting the bridge.

We call it normal. We feel that on a plywood instrument there is a certain degree of settling that occurs within the first few years, and this settling is not exclusive to the European basses we sold. I have seen it in other European, Asian and American made instruments as well. I have yet to see or hear of any sinking on our handmade American basses...but the oldest ones are about a year old now and no doubt some settling will occur. I would expect to see some settling on carved tops too though. It's thin wood under extreme constant tension (Grace Under Pressure! To go with your avatar Snarf! ).

During the process of R&D on our handmade American basses we had the luxury of playing with various ply configurations and thicknesses. Initially I made some very robust tops that could hold my weight without budging...you can imagine the sound though on something so inflexible. We also made some thin tops that went flat under my weight (yes, we really did stand on tops!) that we felt were just too thin to have longevity no matter how good they sounded. Eventually we found a nice middle ground that could withstand the constant high tension of string load while still resonating.

So...my point to this story? If the top was built to such a degree that zero settling occurred...it would prob sound like crap as it would be too stiff.

Gary has put a 5 year warranty on our basses...including the European ones we did not build. This is not an extension of the manufacturers warranty (as they offer zero warranty and we found them usually not to care after the basses left the factory). This is Gary putting his name behind them. To date we have not seen a top that has needed replacing.

Usually, as Malloybow has found, a taller post and new placement can do. Keeping up with seasonal adjustments is always a good idea. I often suggest scheduling a "check up" about twice a year...usually about the time you change your clocks. We don't charge for an appointment (I would assume most luthiers don't) and having a summer and winter soundpost is pretty normal and they can be swapped out fairly quickly. I know I see DRURB at least twice a year!

The nice thing about making the basses ourselves now though is that IF a bass was brought in to us with such a degree of deformation that we agreed something must be done beyond setup, we could make a new top with a very fast turn around to the owner (this applies even to our older European made basses). I doubt I will ever have to do so...but it could be done. (Funny side note...I had a top recently that did not meet our quality standards to be put into use. Several guys in the workshop watched me as I bent the plate...almost in half...before it snapped! It was interesting to say the least as I did not expect it to bend so far without failure!)

We are a bunch of hard working guys who love what we do. Despite the picture that is being painted here on TB recently by some, we are not a cruel mega corporation run by greedy CEO's who just want to get your money. If you have a concern, call us. We will look at your bass and either calm your fears or make it right. You trusted us with the purchase of your bass...and this purchase was just the start of a relationship between you, your bass, and us. Call us.
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  #5  
Old 04-19-2008, 06:23 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mystic/North Stonington, CT
Interesting post Eric!
  #6  
Old 04-19-2008, 07:08 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kansas City area
Eric,
Thank you for the detailed response. Have you noticed any issues with small bulges on the backs where the post sits. I believe the sinking of my top was minor, maybe a couple of mm and equivalent to the bulge on the back.

I had the post adjusted a couple of times while I owned the bass. I don't believe a loose post was the issue with my particular bass. It has the carved top btw.
  #7  
Old 04-19-2008, 08:37 AM
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Retailer: Shen, Sun, older European
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlingame, California
How to quantify

It's nice for a repairman to get some measurements on the phone or in a message forum so that he/ she can get a rough idea if movements are "within specs". With a surface that is nothing but a bunch of collected curves it's going to be somewhat ditficult, but try laying a long straight edge lengthwise in the bridge area and measure any sinking gap that you can see. Try to measure the amount of sinking from the center edge of a soundhole to the outer edge. It will give a repairman more to go on when he's making a decision over distance. You want to see some movement under stress loading over time. Otherwise you'll have a table top with strings on it.

I'll give a litle plug to Eric and Gary. I know that they do work very hard and always strive to make the best out of an instrument that they can. I recently took in one of their Romanian hybrid basses in trade and it sounds a lot better than a stock instrument from this particular factory. I'm sure that the Upton guys will take care of anybody as long as there is good communication going on. This wooden machinery that we play does require occasional inspections and tuneups by someone qualified. Try to think of these once or twice yearly inspections as preventive maintenance.
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