Talk me out of vintage plywoods - Page 2

sean p · #21 12-05-2003, 01:29 PM

i can't speak to the quality of the shen hybrid or laminate models, but my two basses are a carved shen and a 1940 kay so i'll weigh in on this one.

i've had the kay for 7 years, never had a problem with it. it's been on the road and proven its durability, and though some of the setup specifics are different than i'd like, i still play it as my main gigging bass. it sounds good and is durable, painted on purfling (yes) and knock off scroll ears (yes-i knocked one off myself) or not.

the shen i've taken on the road too (much more than the kay), and it's held up beautifully despite the various inevitable abuses. but it has had some inherent structural issues - the top popped at the seam (center joint) when it was young, and there is a buzzing seam opening near the bottom of the top (at the bond with the ribs). another (carved) shen owner in town has had many problems with open seams on his bass.

these problems may be inherent to the carved shens only (solid wood is more problematic than plywood for climate changes, often resulting in open seams). perhaps the laminates are very well built and reliable. but my experience has been that when one buys a new bass there's a certain risk involved in what the wood is going to want to do (pull apart or stay put) in the first couple years of its life. on the other hand, when one 'buys old' one's getting a bass that, if it's in good playing condition, has been through all that and is (if well-repaired) more likely to be stable structurally.

this of course is an enormous generalization to which there are countless contingencies, but it's one thing to think about.

sean p

John Sprague · #22 12-05-2003, 02:43 PM

Hi Sean,

I hear ya about the seams popping. Our old design of that Gumunder style 7/8 was a great sounding bass, but we had seen alot of common flatback structural issues. There are a slew of those basses in your area, as well as in and around Maryland. The structure actually caused us to switch to a roundback version for a few years, and we've only recently come back to a flat, on that exact same outline, but built quite differently than a few years ago. So yeah, nice basses from Sam from 1998-2000, but they will require a (hopefully minor)seam repair every few years if they see varying climate.

Mucho thanks to all you guys who said nice things about our stuff, and Jerry I'll buy you guys lunch next time I'm traipsing around PA.

Rick, thanks for being willing to listen to our plywood, the one you're checking out next week is actually going on the truck in about 30 minutes (or I'm going to be late for dinner). If I may speak irreverently, I'd warn against buying based on mojo, or on what your friends like, but on which bass, when played, makes your pants fit funny.

G/L and happy Friday folks!
John

sean p · #23 12-07-2003, 01:20 PM

hi, john -

good info about the earlier model shen's - thanks. fwiw, mine is a round-backed strehlau (sp?). that's the one with the top that split. however, my buddy that had all the problems with seams did have the flat-backed model.

great-sounding basses, though.

sean p

Rick Blanc · #24 12-08-2003, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by John Sprague

Rick, thanks for being willing to listen to our plywood, the one you're checking out next week is actually going on the truck in about 30 minutes (or I'm going to be late for dinner). If I may speak irreverently, I'd warn against buying based on mojo, or on what your friends like, but on which bass, when played, makes your pants fit funny.

G/L and happy Friday folks!
John

Sounds good. I'll be calling Matt at Potters Violins to find out when they come in. Can't wait to give them a try.

godoze · #25 12-08-2003, 09:40 AM

Rick,
just to give you a little more g.a.s might I suggest you skip the plywood and try a carved Shen ?

Ken Smith has the most beautiful carved Shen I have ever seen. The first time I saw it I would have sworn that it's a 200 yr old bass; some of the most beautiful wood I've ever seen.

Plays like buttah.

Rick Blanc · #26 12-08-2003, 10:26 AM

Yeah, no question the carved and hybrid basses are going to be a better instrument. But after I learn to play it I'll be using it in my blues band and I'll be doing alot of slapping ala Willie Dixon when he was with the Big Three. So I wouldn't want to subject such a fine instrument to that kind of treatment. Plus I'll be amplifying it so the plywood isn't going to have as much of a feedback issue.

godoze · #27 12-08-2003, 11:09 AM

Rick, all good points but i think I hear "reason" in your response which we all know is combated by g.a.s....

Rick Blanc · #28 12-08-2003, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DonZ
Rick, all good points but i think I hear "reason" in your response which we all know is combated by g.a.s....

This may be the first time I actually LOLed. Thanks I need that

Rick Blanc · #29 12-12-2003, 09:00 AM

Well I'm nearly convinced. I'm going to Potters Violins at lunch today to check out the Shen model 100 laminant. Stuff like this is also pushing me toward a new bass
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=16222

$3450 for a 40's Kay S-8 and the reserve still hasn't been met.

mxr255 · #30 12-12-2003, 01:49 PM

if that Shen is set up right you cannot go wrong....have fun and let us know how you make out....

Matt

PS
I am not a huge Kay man, but that Kay does look sweet....still too much money though...

Paul Warburton · #31 12-12-2003, 06:03 PM

That is totally unbelievable!!! The bidding started at $1500!!!!

Rick Blanc · #32 12-22-2003, 07:15 AM

So I went to Potters Violins on Thursday. They had an Eastman 100 Model (plywood), a Shen Hybrid, a Shen carved and a vintage German plywood. For my needs and budget the Eastman was suprisingly a very nice bass. It was easy to play and had a good deep tone. The main difference between it and the better basses was that the lowest notes started getting a little muddy. A good set up would probably help that alot. The Shen hybrid and carved where really sweet. They were loud and deep sounding with a more musical mid and top end.
Then we started talking about old basses and I told him I wouldn't mind trying some old basses if he ever got some more in.
He asked me if I've ever heard of Keter Betts. I said sure.
So he goes downstairs and come back up with one of Keters old basses and tells me that Keter dropped it off a few months ago and wanted to let it go but never told Potters how much he wanted for it. So they're going to get ahold of Keter to get a price.
Keters old bass is fully carved with a funky reddish finnish and really thin neck. It played so easily, man was that thing loud.
Anyway I should be getting a price tomorrow.
Sorry for the long post.

T-Bal · #33 12-22-2003, 02:13 PM

Let us know what they're asking - I'm curious myself, if you wind up not getting it. Also, where is Potter's?

Rick Blanc · #34 12-23-2003, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by T-Bal
Let us know what they're asking - I'm curious myself, if you wind up not getting it. Also, where is Potter's?

Potter's is in Bethesda, Maryland.
I probably won't be getting it, unless it's stupidly cheap, because I'll be playing in a blues band and doing a fair amount of slapping. I wouldn't want to subject a nice old carved bass to that kind of treatment.
Also on the 24th I'm looking at a Christopher 103T Ply that a local college student "Just wants to get rid of". He says he bought it last year and played it for about 3 months then stuck it in the bag and hasn't touched it since. He wants $700 for it so that sounds like a winner to me.

Rick Blanc · #35 12-23-2003, 01:54 PM

Called Potters and they said that Keter hasn't returned their calls. Maybe he's on tour again.

BassGreaser · #36 12-24-2003, 08:53 AM

how do the Shen hybrids compare to the strunal hybrids?

Rick Blanc · #37 12-24-2003, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BassGreaser
how do the Shen hybrids compare to the strunal hybrids?

They didn't have any Strunals there. The Shen hybrid was very very nice. It was deep,loud and very even sounding and really growly. I'm not much of an expert as I've only been looking for about 6 months and have only played a few basses. But it had that growly jazz bass sound I have in my head. the neck was a little thick for me, but the again I use to playing electrics with slim jazz style necks.