Is there any reason to consider a carved bass for a 13-year old?

orange-man · #1 11-14-2006, 11:40 AM

I just found this forum and I have learned a lot in just a couple of days. Thanks to everyone for posting.

My son will turn 13 shortly and he has been playing since he was 3. We have been renting all these years and it seems like the right time to purchase a bass. He is very active playing in classical orchestras, jazz combos and big band and is a very serious player.

From a strategic standpoint I'm thinking that he still has 8th grade next year, then high school and college and it doesn't make sense to me to go to a carved bass at this time. Yet other students his age have purchased carved basses including the Chinese basses.

I am leaning toward a Hawkes Hybrid or the New Standard Cleveland basses. If he continues to progress and keep his interest, I would think that would be the time to look for a carved bass but maybe I am missing something and want to know if my thought process is correct.

At 13, he has been playing for 10 years, but still, it seems like an unnecessary stretch at this time. I would appreciate your feedback.

Chasarms · #2 11-14-2006, 11:47 AM

There's no reason to think a Hybrid is going to hold him back in any way. There are plenty of excellent hybrid basses out there that can be set up play very well and sound nice also.

Having two sons myself, I think I would prefer the hybrid for no other reason than durability. It isn't as if you will take a bath on the bass. If you buy the right bass and take care of it, you'll get most all your $$ back when it is the right time to move up.

Eric Hochberg · #3 11-14-2006, 12:02 PM

Unless he's a pretty big kid, I would think that the Cleveland would be alot of bass for a 13 year old (size wise). Don't know about the Upton, but you might want to check the size of the upper bouts (they are advertised as "large"). He should definitely play these basses before you buy.

mpm · #4 11-14-2006, 12:03 PM

+1 to Chasarms comment!

conte2music · #5 11-14-2006, 12:08 PM

The Hawkes and Cleveland have both recieved great reviews. Someday it might be nice for your son to make one of these instruments optimized for jazz while moving up to a carved for his orchestral playing. Just a thought...I used two seperate basses throughout my undergrad and it was always very enjoyable to have the best sounds in the studio while others struggled to play jazz on flex originals or play classical lit with spiros I just grabbed my other bass.

Steve Swan · #6 11-14-2006, 05:02 PM

Is a 13 year old capable of handling a fully carved bass? It depends on the kid and his family. I sell a fair number of carved basses to middle school and high school kids. If a kid has been raised to respect the people and things in his environment AND is calm enough to be present and aware of his surroundings, it will work out fine. Most of the middle school and high school students that have come through my shop door have the skills and awareness to make it work.

Some boys that age, however, are just not capable yet of remaining focused and aware enough to safely handle a nice instrument. The hormones are raging far too much. These kids are going to need beaters until they can manage moving a big thing like a bass much less their own bodies. I haven't yet had a teenage girl come in that looked like she would have trouble. My ex-wife started playing bass in high school at age 14. For her, the bass was the most important thing in her life outside the members of her family.

It's a wonderful thing to see a kid's eyes light up playing an instrument that is 3 steps up from the junk that is found in music rooms of many middle schools and high schools.

Steve Swan

jallenbass · #7 11-14-2006, 05:09 PM

Don't forget that you'll be listening to whatever you get for him.

Sam Sherry · #8 11-14-2006, 06:39 PM

It's a pleasure to agree with all the good guys.

When my son brought home three straight honor rolls, a pro horn was waiting for him. There he was, finishing sixth grade and holding a (refurbished, less-collectible) Selmer Mark VI tenor. Why?

a) Because I could. There have been many times when I couldn't have, lemme tell ya.

b) Because I got to say, "You'd better practice a lot. You will NEVER be able to blame the horn."

c) Because I spent twenty years wrapped up in Gear Acquisition Syndrome and he will never have to.

Fundamentally, very few of us are good enough to actually "deserve" the lovely instruments we own. But we can hope . . . .

P.S. -- My kid's turned out to be a pretty good player after all.

ispider6 · #9 11-14-2006, 06:59 PM

It's hard to give you the best answer on this as we don't know your son and how he'll treat the instrument. However, if he's like most kids, I'd suggest a hybrid like you mentioned. He'll be getting a better instrument but it won't break the bank or your heart if he should happen to accidentally (fill in the blank). Assuming he's wanting to continue with the bass in college, then you could add or upgrade to a fully-carved bass.

Masters2010 · #10 11-14-2006, 07:15 PM

There are also factors besides how careful you child is such as the people he's playing with. I got a kolstein carved fendt when I was 12, and for the last 5 years, I've babied it. However, there are two small nicks on it, both from other middle school players that were careless with their instrument and hit mine, totally irrelevent to how careful I was. One kid dropped a stand on it, and that left a nick by the back of the neck. Even so, my bass is still in great shape and has hardly any nicks on it, even after 2 years in middle school and other various youth groups. Like everyone else says, it depends on your kid. Only you know how he will treat it, but if he's a mature responsible kid, and you think he deserves it, then it's a perfectly good idea.

orange-man · #11 11-14-2006, 07:43 PM

Thank you to everyone that replied. I was thinking of two things:

1) The durability factor, sometimes he has to leave it at school out of his control (this happens a lot). Usually it is teachers that might handle it, but not always.

2) The second factor if I presume that has he gets older and we would get a high end bass, if having something like a hybrid would provide enough satisfaction as his playing improves (I'm not sure if I am asking the question correctly). Having never heard a hybrid and not having spend any time one-on-one with a carved bass such that I can do critical listening I thought I would ask those of you who know the sound differences very well.

Thanks again for all your help, feel free to keep commenting, I appreciate wll the great feedback!

Sippy · #12 11-14-2006, 09:23 PM

Hmmmm. It seems your boy knows what he's going to have. if he's had an interest this long he has obviously had an interest in the different kinds of basses out there. My upright is a 50 year old lam bass that is perfect for me. If i'm playing at an outdoor show I don't worry if the weather will kill it (Florida is the official "Our Weather hates Basses" state.) I spin it while playing...I use it for what it was made for... Playing.. Now My '73 Fender Precision Bass. That only goes to the "classier" gigs. And never leaves my hand. as much as I hate it I will never loan it out to other bassists whose gear fails. I have acquired a reputation of being a smug ******* because of it. But I know waht I have and I Need to be in control of it.
I think the same will apply to him. Once he has a bass that he can "admire" he will know how to treat it. Plus nothing inspires a musician more then to play an instrument he thought he'd never have

drurb · #13 11-14-2006, 09:35 PM

Some great advice has been provided here. It seems to me there is one piece of information that is conspicuously absent. What is your budget? Answering this question is certain to influence the advice you get. The fact that your son has to leave the bass at school is, to me, a major consideration. I am certainly a proponent of giving serious students the best instrument possible and/or practical. If it must be left at school out of his control, there would be no way I would supply him with a fine carved bass. What is "fine?" Well, we're back to the budget question again.

orange-man · #14 11-14-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

Some great advice has been provided here. It seems to me there is one piece of information that is conspicuously absent. What is your budget? Answering this question is certain to influence the advice you get. The fact that your son has to leave the bass at school is, to me, a major consideration. I am certainly a proponent of giving serious students the best instrument possible and/or practical. If it must be left at school out of his control, there would be no way I would supply him with a fine carved bass. What is "fine?" Well, we're back to the budget question again.

That is a good question. I could do $3K without too much trouble, $5-6K would be a bit of a stretch and anything beyond $6K would be a major stretch, but as we so often do for our children, I would try to find a way if it was the right move. It does happen quite often that he has to leave the bass backstage while returning to class as there is no place to put it within the classroom. Or it might be left in a teacher's room where the teacher watches out for it, but kids are coming and going all day long, so this is in the back of my mind not to go too far out in price for this reason.

rdwhit · #15 11-14-2006, 10:30 PM

I sugjest a new standard lascala plywood. It's in your budget and the best value in it's class that I've played. I say lascala rather than cleveland because it is a slightly smaller 3/4 bass, and with your worries about places it will be stored, a smaller bass will be a smaller target for carless accidents which are currently beyond your controll. You can keep it as a backup bass later when you buy somthing carved. If he playes jazz, keep the ply lascala for jazz w/ good pizz strings-they amplify great. Keep arco strings on the carved bass for orch playing. If he doesn't play jazz the ply lascala w/ arco strings is still a great choice.

jallenbass · #16 11-14-2006, 10:44 PM

I understand that the La Scala is a nice instrument but $4250 for a plywood bass seems like a lot of money. I have never played one so take my comment with a grain of salt. Is it that much better than a Shen plywood?

rdwhit · #17 11-14-2006, 10:45 PM

btw, I also like Ken Smith's ideas about the shens. The shen ply costs less than either new standard ply, but imho the new standard is a better bass. The carved shen willow is a good value in a carved bass also, but if you are worried about other kids banging it up, I say stay w/ply for now-new standard 1st choice, shen second.

bribass · #18 11-14-2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

That's a good budget. I suggest a good Shen Plywood or the Shen Willow 3/4 for a carved Bass. Great value for the money. Contact CSC/Shen for the closest dealer to you. A local dealer is best in the long run for continuing personal service.

Shen makes a hybrid too. Don't they Ken?
The 180 if I'm not mistaken.

I'm considering steering a 13 year old student and her parents toward one of those. The have a similar 2.5-4K budget.
BG

rdwhit · #19 11-14-2006, 10:53 PM

Yes shen makes several hybrids, but look at Ken Smiths last post. He said it better than I can. The new standard ply is the best of both worlds and well worth the money

standupright · #20 11-15-2006, 12:03 AM

I have to agree with the majority of the posts here. Durability and reliability. I remember growing up, how much damage was done to the school basses. Almost makes me sick (and some of of it was my own teenage lack of responsibility and understanding). I remember one time a cellist tripped over my bass and knocked the fingerboard completely off as well as the bridge, soundpost, and put a crack in the top. If that happened now I would flip. But at 15 I remember thinking, oh well, hope the school has another. Go for durability/quality. It is good to have a great instrument play, it really does help. But it's better to be a good player.

It's almost like buying a brand new 5 series BMW for a 16 year old when they get their driver's license. That nice car doesn't make them a better driver.......

Food for thought...
Good luck!

>>>Paul Haley