Too Quiet Around Here.. (massive Master Restoration on a Classic Bass)

[KSB - Ken Smith]

After a few 'hot' topics the DB side has really gotten quiet. So, I have a new old subject to bring up to maybe pull you away from the re-runs on TV.

Of several Basses I have the one I have always been most fond of is my Gilkes. This because of how unusual it is for a Bass of its kind and in the period it was made. When I bought it I was aware it had not been opened up or restored in my lifetime or even likely of my parent’s lifetime.

The edges were all chewed up, putty on the 'Corners of the Top, Glue drips all across the Back from gluing the seams all the time and so on. The Low end was a little weak depending on the String used and the Bass was clear and bright. My Dodd seemed to sound an octave lower when compared but still, the Gilkes was a most charming majestic looking Bass.

I gave the Bass to Arnold Schnitzer to restore when he was done with my Prescott OR sell it if a buyer came along and could pay the asking price, taking it as-is.

Well after a most extensive restoration and tone-improving venture the Gilkes is now in its final stage of touch-up and Extension fitting. Today it was strung up for the first time with all the new work (I will explain shortly) and tested with the E tuned down to C to see if it could handle an Extension C fundamental. Arnold called me to let me know the 'operation was successful' and the 'new old Bass' will be just fine down to C. Before, the E was weak not to mention a C.

I asked him a simple question, "will it sound to me like my Old Gilkes repaired or a completely different Bass?" Arnold reply was the latter. I heard only a few notes over the phone but my car was low on gas and it was late in the day. Lucky for him..

The Top does not have a single crack nor does the Cello shaped Back. The Ribs have taken all the hits over the last 192 years. The lining on the Back was completely chewed up from all the knives shoved in to re-glue the seams every time they opened. The Lining on the Top side C-bouts were also chewed up and had to be replaced along with all the lining of the Back. Both the Neck Block and tail Block were ok but probably not original or at least the upper block isn't. The Bass bar was very possibly the original still but it was replaced and spread further from the center about 4mm giving the Bass 8mm more distance between the 'Bar and the 'Post. The Bar position was thought to be hurting the low end when I got the Bass but I used it for 2 years as-is. Many of the Rib repairs were done from the outside and they have all been re-done by Arnold. One of the Corner blocks was repaired as they were made in a most unique way. Two of them were already replaced and one was repaired. A forth was all original showing how Gilkes made them. The 'nose' of the corner block was rounded off and finished about 1/4" short of the Rib mitre. The Ribs were glued to each other solo with no Block support at the joints. In the early days of this Bass when it was opened for repairs, the just leveled the inner edges of the Top and NEVER replaced any of the wood. I believe 'half-edging is the correct term for the wood under the edges if the Top side stays intact. The Upper Bout was actually missing some of it's edges and Purfling so Arnold had to re-build some of it. We settled for regular Violin 3-layered Purfling as some of the upper bout has anyway since the shoulder cut from around 1870. Arnold will do his best to make it look good as you can only count the 7-layers with a magnifier glass and not with the naked eye. We suspect this was some kind of layered black and white paper glued up and inlayed as the miters in the corners of the Back are all intact and are executed as good as any Strad which Gilkes' work has been compared to by his modern peers.

Out of all the Basses I have owned and still own, none have taken me the way this one does. Maybe he left a bit of his soul inside the Bass for those that look close enough to feel after awhile of close contact..?

The Bass as described on the phone to me by Arnold (which needs to be played in again) is loud, thick, deep dark and sweet on the G as well as not at all thinning as you play up the G-string but staying dark and rich.

Arnold knows I am 'chompin at the bit' BUT, I want it back so bad I am willing to wait patiently for him to complete it as best as humanly possible.

I hope Arnold chimes in to share his experience working on this Bass which is not your normal type restoration as respectful tone-improving alterations are necessary. You can bet I will post pics which will be a link on my website when I get it back.

Also done which is not as rare but important was the Neck moved out from a 15mm stand to about 35mm, new Fingerboard, Arnolds trademark Graphite Bars inlaid into the neck, a New Bridge with his top Ebony style adjusters and the only Endpin to fit the humongous socket opening, a nice Graphite Rod unit.

Gee, is that everything?.. (Scratching head b4 spell checking.. )

[5stringDNA]

man... what a job. I really love the older italians with a cello flair to them. The large upper bouts look really cool. You have to post some pictures when Arnold finishes the last touches on the operating table Ken. I haven't been fortunate to play anything more than 50 years old at this point.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by 5stringDNA

man... what a job. I really love the older italians with a cello flair to them. The large upper bouts look really cool. You have to post some pictures when Arnold finishes the last touches on the operating table Ken. I haven't been fortunate to play anything more than 50 years old at this point.

I'm sorry, my bad. I just assumed most would realize that the Gilkes is English.

This is the Bass a little over 2 years ago when I first got it;

Being in Denver yourself, why not give Paul W. a call and see his 5er. It's a late 19th century (1880s?) Bohmann. He loves talking about it so I am sure he would be glad to show it off.

Yes, when I get the Bass back I will take all new pics and I will also put up some pics Arnold took from the inside during the Restoration.

Note(9/7/06): The Bass is back and posted on page 3 of this thread.

[5stringDNA]

Gilkes didn't sound very Italian.. I must have just misread the context. I am horribly tired and it's been a very long week.

I have seen and heard Paul's Bohmann, and I absolutely LOVE it. I did not have the opportunity to play it however. Paul got me started with a some lessons and finding my first bass. He also kicked my butt and told me to figure what I wanna do, haha. I needed it. I did get to play one of Bob Ross's gorgeous creations though, and I was very impressed with it.

I really like the curves on that Gilkes Ken. Fully restored it's got to be great.

[SamJ]

Ken, I envy you man.. What I would give to have a job like yours!

I'm now Gassing for a nice DB project bass, possibly a nice fixer upper to practice my perceived restorations skills on What? I have no idea, but maybe a $3000 or so investment. If only I hadn't just bought that Martin (a second acoustic guitar in one month), the wife may have a fit! I need to get a grip!

btw.. You hiring people with no luthiery skills to hang out and drool on your basses?

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by SamJ

Ken, I envy you man.. What I would give to have a job like yours! btw.. You hiring people with no luthiery skills to hang out and drool on your basses?

Job? It's not a Job, it's an adventure. Actually, this was the first Bass I bought for myself to replace the old Italian Bass I used to have. I sold it a few years after I retired from playing to buy a house. Now, I just wanna play with something comparable to what I used to have. Although the Gilkes is way different than my old Italian, it is no less of a Bass by any means.

I also own two other great English Basses now (an just sold a 4th I had recently). One is nearing it's restoration and should be done this year while the other is going under the knife shortly. Even though they both might match or beat the sound of this Gilkes, it will never have the charm no matter who fixes them. Gilkes made sure of that. Gilkes also knew the other makers in his lifetime as well because they all worked in the same town, same period and in neighboring shops.

Wish I had a 'Time Machine' to just go back to some Pub around 1814 or so and listen to them talk and share stories as they drink beer after a long day under the skylights and candle light making magic. I wonder what Samuel Gilkes might have said to Bernhard Fendt after completing this Bass with the 7-layer purfling for some high society amatuer? "Top that you old Kraut" he shouted from his bar stool as the workers from Forster, Dodd and Betts sat around telling stories of what went on that day as their competing bosses watched these soon to be famous masters carving away not knowing that one day they will hold their own in the ranks of Violin history.

[SamJ]

Ken, I think you romanticize about the history of (DB) Bass like I romanticize about being a famous general in some past war... What I would give to to be able to go back thru time like in that show (I forget the name) where they get dumped into various points in history!

Doesn't it sometimes seem like all of the good moments history have already occurred sometimes?? I guess that's a bit self evident.

Or, to be a bit more cliché.. "Son ...they just don't make 'em like they used to"

[Jeff Bollbach]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Job? It
Wish I had a 'Time Machine' to just go back to some Pub around 1814 or so and listen to them talk and share stories as they drink beer after a long day under the skylights and candle light making magic. I wonder what Samuel Gilkes might have said to Bernhard Fendt after completing this Bass with the 7-layer purfling for some high society amatuer? "Top that you old Kraut" he shouted from his bar stool as the workers from Forster, Dodd and Betts sat around telling stories of what went on that day as their competing bosses watched these soon to be famous masters carving away not knowing that one day they will hold their own in the ranks of Violin history.

What makes you think that luthiers would be drinking? [how come there's no smiley for "blotto"?]

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Well yes, the romantic thing is very interesting to fantasize about. It is written that Gilkes met his 'untimely' death in 1827 at the age of only 39-40 (depending on the month he was born). What do they mean exactly by the word 'untimely'? Was he at the wrong place at the wrong time? Did he get sick? Jealous husband or Jealous wife? Trampled by a Horse 'n' Carriage?

When you talk about your bass or Dream bass to an old timer they say, "Just play the darn thing!" When you talk about the possibility of who made what how and when to a luthier while he is working on your Bass he says "Who Knows?"

But in the absence of a working luthier leaning over the insides of an old Bass or an old man just leaning over, we can dream all we want.

[SamJ]

amen..

[Jeremy Allen]

Originally Posted by SamJ

What I would give to to be able to go back thru time like in that show (I forget the name) where they get dumped into various points in history!

Do you mean "Voyagers!" ? The dude and the kid and the little compass thingy called the "Omni" and they kept on like helping the Wright Brothers or meeting Napoleon? Ah, 1983...what a year. (Or maybe you mean "Quantum Leap," not quite as historically-minded if I recall.)

Ken, I'm starting to share your fondness for the English basses. Andy Stetson just mailed me a photocopy of some information about the "John Smith" who may have made the bass I recently acquired...but there were three entries for luthiers of that name on the same page (go figure...) so I don't know which one it was! Not that it matters if it was John Smith or Bob Jones; it's a beast of a bass.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Yes, I think I told you that before you bought the Bass when you first mentioned it here. Read the history of each though. I think it will be easy to pick which guy it was. If not labelled or branded, I would wonder why that name was even considered.

[Jeremy Allen]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

It is written that Gilkes met his 'untimely' death in 1827 at the age of only 39-40 (depending on the month he was born). What do they mean exactly by the word 'untimely'? Was he at the wrong place at the wrong time? Did he get sick? Jealous husband or Jealous wife? Trampled by a Horse 'n' Carriage?

Untimely or not, I think that was a ripe old age. I just read that the average life expectancy in Britain in 1830 was...40 years!

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Johono5

Untimely or not, I think that was a ripe old age. I just read that the average life expectancy in Britain in 1830 was...40 years!

I'll tell you what. Now that you brought it up, I will look up the ages of a dozen or so famous makers of that period in London just to keep things fair for comparison. If it was normal to die by 40 back then and being a Violin Maker, they wouldn't have written 'met his untimely death in 1827' or something similar. I will look it up for the exact quote as well.

They averages are made up of all life styles. England went to war in America, then France. After King George II died in 1819, the economy was bad. Music died as a result until after 1850 or so.

A skilled maker the likes of Gilkes was a nobleman of his times, and not necessarly a pauper although many makers of the trade died poor and buried in a paupers grave regardless of the fame that came a century and a half after they died.

[5stringDNA]

Such was the life of mozart who died in his mid 30's. Poor, unpopular, and died young.
Beethoven was the exact opposite, however. I like Beethoven a lot more regardless, haha!

I think it's funny that I am the one with the History degree and Ken builds basses, but he's the one doing the romanticizing. If you start talking pirates, however, then I'm all there. I have a long ways to go in learning DB history.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Johono5

Untimely or not, I think that was a ripe old age. I just read that the average life expectancy in Britain in 1830 was...40 years!

Since I don't have the months of birth and death the ages lived will be within one year of these 18th-19th century London makers.

John Betts, 68. Richard Davis, 61. Thomas Dodd, 70. B.S. Fendt Sr., 63. B.S. Fendt II, 51. William Forster II, 69. William Forster III, 60. W. Forster IV, 36. Simon Andrew Forster, 69. Thomas Kennedy, 86. Samuel Gilkes, 40. William Gilkes, 64?. Charles Harris, 60. J.F. Lott Sr., 77. J.F. (Jack) Lott II, 66.

These are some of the top London Makers but there are 100s more. If you want to know the age of one I have left out, Just ask and i will try looking it up. I am using 4-5 different books for the source of this information.

[SamJ]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Since I don't have the months of birth and death the ages lived will be within one year of these 18th-19th century London makers.

John Betts, 68. Richard Davis, 61. Thomas Dodd, 70. B.S. Fendt Sr., 63. B.S. Fendt II, 51. William Forster II, 69. William Forster III, 60. W. Forster IV, 36. Simon Andrew Forster, 69. Thomas Kennedy, 86. Samuel Gilkes, 40. William Gilkes, 64?. Charles Harris, 60. J.F. Lott Sr., 77. J.F. (Jack) Lott II, 66.

These are some of the top London Makers but there are 100s more. If you want to know the age of one I have left out, Just ask and i will try looking it up. I am using 4-5 different books for the source of this information.

I think it would be great therapy for you maybe if you wrote "a" book.. one comprehensive book that covers what those 5 does, and does it with nice pictures, and lots of big words!

[philip sirois]

Just a note. The low life expectancy in those days was in great part, although certainly not completely, tied to very high rates of infant mortality. One you got "out of the woods", living to a relatively ripe old age wasn't all that rare.

[Jeremy Allen]

OK, OK, it was just an attempt at levity. We all know what the strict definition of a statistical average is, how it's derived, and what it can and cannot tell us about individual instances. More to the point: am I really the only one who remembers that show "Voyagers!" ? So much for "ars longa, vita brevis..."

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Johono5

OK, OK, it was just an attempt at levity. We all know what the strict definition of a statistical average is, how it's derived, and what it can and cannot tell us about individual instances. More to the point: am I really the only one who remembers that show "Voyagers!" ? So much for "ars longa, vita brevis..."

No, No.. I remember it too. Do you remember the original movie "The Time Machine" ? It was a large Chair with gadgets to set the date to go back to or forward to in time. I think the movie is from the 60s.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/079...v=glance&n=130

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...v=glance&n=130