total newbie needs help

Akbrownsfan · #1 10-11-2007, 03:53 PM

Hi! My name is Mike and I've lurked here for months now. I need some help.....I don't play bass YET but want to learn. I play a washtub and I'm pretty good! Lol. I don't know music at all yet, but can hear notes. I've picked up DB at festivals and played what people showed me. I am 100% sure I want an upright and will put in time to learn. My fingers are callused already.
Here is my problem. I live in Alasks (which while part of the problem is great.....wouldn't live anywhere else.) We have one guy who is a lauthier (sp?). He sell only one brand St. Antonio with a carved front. I have researched DB but didn't find much on that brand beyond they were pretty good. He would get me one fully set up for around $1700-2200. He also says he works with the Chinese makers (says he is there this week) to make sure they are up to Alaska's weather.
I am in the lower 48 for ten days (Ohio) and am taking the oppertunity to hear as many basses as I can. Shipping UPS ground from Ohio would cost around $200. I have read on here over and over to not buy chinese (lark, carmona etc). This guy also warned me NOT to get an Eberdhart as the neck isn't ebony and he says won't stand up to Alaska.
I have found a place in ohio that sells Eberdhard and am going to see how they sound. What does his review of the fingerboard mean though? He also says the need repaired more.
I just found an Holbein (sp?) from Czeck that a place called Woodys music is selling. This one is $1100 for total laminate, and $1700 for a carved front. Has anyone played or heard an Holbien? (phonetic spelling there I would bet it is spelled a little different....guy told me think whole-bean.)
So my dilema is which brand to buy. How to buy, and where. I am willing to spend up to and around $2000. Remember shipping is a problem too. Most places simply won't ship to alaska. I know this whole thing might sound stupid, but I've played enough DB that other people own to know I want one. Most bass's that I see in Alaska have either been handed down or are the St. Antonio. Any and all info would really be appreciated. I am in Ohio till next friday.
Thank you all and please don't laugh to hard!

Eric Hochberg · #2 10-11-2007, 04:31 PM

Nick Lloyd is in Cincinnati and may have a good quality Shen for you in your price range. He'll set it up well also.

http://nicklloydbasses.com/

Good Luck!

Akbrownsfan · #3 10-11-2007, 04:56 PM

I have been thinking of a shen as well. AlsoI meant Engelhartdt on the above post not however I spelled it

Does the Engelhardt neck or fingerboard come off? Does fairly extreme temp changes mess it up? Is rosewood ok, or ebony only?

Still any knowledge of either St. Antonio or Holbien?

Anyone here ever ship a bass? If you don't have the box it was shipped in what would you do? The shop with the Holbien didn't have anything. Also any tips? (he mentioned theirs come with stickers that say upright only ect)

See my main problem with shipping and set up I'm looking at an additional $500. Lower 48 shops wll not ship one to me. I am trying to stay around $2000. (remember I am soooo a newbie I can't even play music yet.) I've ALMOST gotten over the sticker shock of DB, but still am trying to keep the price down. IF St. Antonio hybrids (is that the term for a laminated back and front and carved front?) is as good or better than similar DB I will get it off my local luthier as it would get me on his good side. His comes in around $1700 (a nicely used one) or new $2300. He would do set up, good stings (I think he said dantonio or D'antoni), and gig bag. I also had him play it while I was at his shop and it was very loud and clear. He also said it was repairable if needed.

Phil Rowan · #4 10-11-2007, 04:59 PM

I spent a week and a half in Anchorage last May. I miss the Brew House, with their dried smoked salmon caesar salad, and their bourbon porter. Yum... And hiking Bird Ridge wasn't too bad either.

Okay, back to the topic of this thread. Like ehonchberg said, check out what Nick Lloyd has, since that's right there in Ohio. Another option (if they can be shipped to Alaska) is the New Standards, made by Arnold Schnitzer (http://aesbass.com/). I played a Cleveland ply once, and it sounded great.

Phil Rowan · #5 10-11-2007, 05:03 PM

Oops, never mind. The Cleveland/La Scala NS is way out of your range.

Akbrownsfan · #6 10-11-2007, 05:04 PM

Brewhouse is very nice. And you would not believe the amount of bluegrass played in Alaska. I was pleasently surprised by that. It is pretty much the most popular music up there.

I will look into what you you suggested!! My real worry is the shipping and the HUGE worry UPS would break it. I know they insure but it would just be a huge pain to replace.

I love alaska, but living there is harder than down south here!

ps..any help will get you a guide if you ever make it up there! plus you can hear our band..trapper creek string band. (which is a joke b/c of the one "string" washtub.) lol

Thanks again for all input. Mike

**Thor** · #7 10-11-2007, 05:11 PM

Just a footnote for you, Akbrownsfan. You will find tons of
good advice on the double bass side of this forum, just be aware
that the traffic here is a lot less than the other side,
so you may need to be a bit patient waiting for responses.

One vendor who is very reputable is Bob Gollihur, and he
ships many items all over the world and Engelhardt to US
and Canada.

Before you play some basses in Ohio, you might check with
him on shipping costs to Anchorage. Then when you find
something you like, you might be able to utilize his shipping expertise.

http://www.gollihur.com/

Gufenov · #8 10-11-2007, 05:38 PM

Your luthier doesn't know s*** about Engelhardts. That brand has been banging around bluegrass festivals for probably longer than he's been drawing air - if they're anything, they're durable. The necks are made of maple, while the fingerboards are made of maple for their cheapest model and rosewood or ebony for their better models.

Engelhardts and Kays (predecessor to Engelhardts) generally have necks that are somewhat thinner than most other brands. Some detractors claim the thinner neck will inhibit learning the "proper" left-hand technique. Others (including me) disagree. You'll find a ton of Kays and Engelhardts in the bluegrass world.

If you've got $2,000 to spend, you'll have a fairly good selection. Play all you can. I 've done business with Bob Gollihur and he's first class all the way. Many here have traded with Gary Upton and he's got a great reputation too.

Akbrownsfan · #9 10-11-2007, 06:43 PM

Yep Bob has a very good rep as does uptown. I will check with both to see what they say. I don't want to tick off the Luthier in Anchorage though as that is my only choice as far as set up or repairs. I will but I guess I would rather not. He's a very good guy, just very serious and attached to the bass's he sells. If he really does go to China to check em out, and I believe him then I understand his attachement. He told me our weather is very hard on bass. That I have a hard time believing that the St. Antonio would be any better than anything else.
I am worried what he said about the necks and fingerboards as he knows a lot more than me about instuments in Alaska.

Still if neither Bob or Upton will ship to Alaska I have the same problems as before. I'll check though! Thanks a lot, and for the other post well, I'm getting more response than I thought I would.

Thanks all!

Akbrownsfan · #10 10-11-2007, 06:47 PM

Everthing I have read or heard beyond Peter says Engelhardts are very good. He is the only person to talk bad about them. Mainly I think he just has a problem with the rosewood.

Since he told me if I bought a Carmono or a Lark that he simply wouldn't touch them I am worred he would say the same about the Engelhardt. I'll call him and ask. And for what I or anyone else thinks.......well he could be reading.
In all honesty the guy intimidates me. Since I have very little idea about what I'm talking about!

Gufenov · #11 10-11-2007, 07:11 PM

You might try asking over at www.bluegrassbassplace, too. I don't know if any members are from Alaska, but you never know!

ZachDad · #12 10-11-2007, 07:30 PM

Hey AKBROWNSFAN! Welcome to TB! Check your private message box and maybe we can speed this bass search up a bit.

MingusAmongUs · #13 10-11-2007, 07:34 PM

Engelhardts are decent basses. The only "bad" thing I've ever heard about them is what Gufenov said -- that some feel the neck is thinner than it should be. I think it's a matter of preference myself. You'll want to just play one first if at all possible. If nothing else, while you're here go visit Nick and any other shops you can get to (if you're anywhere near KY there must be a few there). Shipping is tough but it may be that your Anchorage guy will have one shipped to you thru him. You'd pay a premium for it but I bet it wouldn't be more than $100-$200 over the local price. Plenty of basses have non-ebony fingerboards and they do fine. Ebony is of course far superior in strength and quality but it isn't absolutely necessary for a new player.

I've heard Upton ships overseas too -- I don't know what they charge for that but definitely check in with them and find out.

Also don't forget http://www.bassesonline.com/
Perfectly decent, if a bit ugly (finish-wise), entry-level basses at butt-cheap prices. Even if it costs $500 to ship you're in the safe zone.

And of course if you haven't already, check this page which answers the next 150 questions you will have!

BASS FORUM LINKS (Newbie Links): PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING NEW TOPICS
Take it all slowly and with a grain of salt. It's a lotta info.

Welcome aboard and have fun thumping.

Akbrownsfan · #14 10-11-2007, 07:46 PM

Thanks again!!
Mingus why are those so cheap? A fully carved for under two grand? Some great prices.
ZackDad I wil call you tomorrow!
Gufanov that link didn't work. Any others?

Do you guys think a pro setting it up is Totally needed? There are not many luthiers in Alaska.

I am getting tons of very helpful stuff so this is GREAT!

Akbrownsfan · #15 10-11-2007, 07:48 PM

opps Mingus I read the Yankels page closer..........it sounds to good to be true........is it? That is pretty unreal. thanks!

Akbrownsfan · #16 10-11-2007, 07:56 PM

I just found out via the computer that Holbien is a Strunel? I guess it is for Sam Ash.

Thanks.

Gufenov · #17 10-11-2007, 08:40 PM

Oops, I forgot to put the dot-com on the end. www.bluegrassbassplace.com

Bass Barrister · #18 10-11-2007, 10:57 PM

Regarding the basses from Ideal Music:

Steve Loeb, son of the late owner of Ideal/Yankel's, is liquidating his dad's extensive stock of string and brass instruments. His dad was the importer for many of the Eastern European brands during the last 50 years or so. At his death, about 5 years ago, he left a warehouse full of stock.

I bought one of the Romanian carved basses and my luthier is working on it. We determined that the bass needed a new bridge, fingerboard planing, soundpost adjustment, and a new end pin. The bass came with new strings (Flexocores) and a "basic" setup. My luthier tells me that it is a very decent basic orchestral bass and that even with the added cost of his work, my total costs (bass, shipping, and setup) are well below the market value of the bass.

Steve's place is no joke. Call him and find out what he has - he'll gladly send you detailed pictures. Remember, however, that you will have to pay shipping and some additional work will probably be required by a luthier.

MingusAmongUs · #19 10-11-2007, 11:25 PM

@Akbrownsfan:

the post above should answer your questions about the "too good to be true" basses. It is true. And it's good. I'm a long time customer of Ideal (the actual 'brick and mortar' store). They're good people and always helpful with questions, etc. I never bought a bass from them but every kind of accessory you can imagine. As Mr. Barrister said, they may need some additional setup work (like most of the less expensive basses anywhere), but it's no scam or anything. It's just that they have a lot of stock and UBs don't tend to move very fast.

Akbrownsfan · #20 10-12-2007, 09:18 AM

thanks Mingus!! With DB everyone keeps at me to only buy reputable brands so sorry about questioning the yankels site. That fully carved for $1300 sound really awesome.

Does fully carved split easily or just if you drop it etc?

So far after a night a sleep my options

1) Buy the St. Antonio hybrid from my local luthier for $1700 fully set up.
2) Buy a Shen or Engelhardt from Bob or the cincy fellow. and get it shipped one way or another for $200 plus price of DB plus set up IF my luthier will do it.
3) Get the Yankel fully carved. Pay for shipping, maybe twice..once to Ohio and then again on to Alaska if they won't ship to Ak. I would think my Luthier wouldn't be such a snob on carved Czech model.

Thanks!