Go Back   TalkBass Forums > Double Bass Forums > Basses [DB]
Register Rules/FAQ/CUP Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Basses [DB] Discussion on the instrument: double bass, string bass, contrabass, bass viol, acoustic bass, upright bass, standup bass, bass fiddle, bass violin, doghouse bass, bull fiddle... :)


Supporting Membership
Thank You

Latest Supporting Member
Donate to Upgrade Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #21  
Old 05-30-2005, 01:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NYC, USA
Huh! I always thought the Mariachi bass line was provided by the guitarron.
Sign in to disble this ad
  #22  
Old 05-30-2005, 02:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Rink
Huh! I always thought the Mariachi bass line was provided by the guitarron.
Actually, the Guitarron plays the part of an Upright Harp.

In the dim, distant past, Mariachi groups included a harpist, who provided low-end on the long strings of the harp.

They typically played for tips on street corners, and if a corner wasn't a rich one, or played itself out, they would go look for a better one.

This meant that the group included an extra member, who was a vocalist only.

He sang, but his MAIN function was to help the harpist move the harp around when the group went looking for a better place to play. To that end, he couldn't have an instrument of his own.

Development of the Guitarron allowed them to eliminate a member from the group, and start splitting the tips fewer ways. I have the same philosophy. In my band, if you sing but don't play an instrument, you're baggage...

It's a six-string instrument, with the strings typically being plucked two at a time, in octaves, and typically tuned A-D-G-C-E-A

Next time you see Mariachis with a guitarron, watch how the guy plucks it... you'll see the connection back to harp.

As for the bass, nobody here or anywhere else could tell me what it was when I was asking about mine.

Like you, I had never heard the low-end coming from anything but a guitarron.

Apparently, though, these "strolling basses" are used more commonly than guitarrons for groups that are actually IN Mexico, rather than in the USA.

Perhaps the Guitarron was a Mexican-American invention, and the Strolling Bass is what was developed across the border, both to replace the low strings on a harp.

The strolling basses aren't a really recent innovation, since this one was made in the mid-fifties.

When I got it, the old tuning machines were barely turnable. I put some liquid teflon into the gears and worked them quite a bit, and now they are nice and smooth.

After I picked it up, I called my favorite luthier, to see about having him look at it, see what it needed, and what it WAS.

I told him that it was an old half-size, with a wooden endpin, and a highly-flamed back... flamed with an airbrush.

He asked me whether it was a roundback or a flatback, and I told him that it was not exactly either one, being a roundback, but with hardly any swell.

Then HE asked ME if the f-holes curled around normally, or if they were't cut all the way through at the tops & bottoms.

When I said they weren't continuous, he continued to describe it to a tee, and told me what it was.

Last edited by Barefoot Larry : 05-30-2005 at 03:08 PM.
  #23  
Old 05-30-2005, 04:18 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Denver, Co.
See the stuff you can learn at TBDB? I have a guitarron that my half brother bought off a drunk Mexican in Mexico City. I went to Mexico City for my honeymoon, and have been making green chili and eating it all my life...but, I never knew this. Thanks Larry!
__________________
Oh, no.....have we gone OT yet again?
"The opportunity was there...but it never presented itself." Phil Urso, 1980. :atoz:
  #24  
Old 05-30-2005, 04:36 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Warburton
See the stuff you can learn at TBDB? I have a guitarron that my half brother bought off a drunk Mexican in Mexico City. I went to Mexico City for my honeymoon, and have been making green chili and eating it all my life...but, I never knew this. Thanks Larry!
Well, I knew the part about the guitarron replacing the harp, but until I got this bass, I had no idea that Mariachis anywhere ever used anything else for the low end of the group.

I asked some of the folks here, and aside from a few pretty educated guesses about why the f-holes weren't cut all the way through, nobody here could identify it, either.

I guess this forum has too much of a "Northeast" population of experts. <grin>

Interestingly enough, I have now seen someone on Rockabillybass.com asking about one, which I think was picked up in Tiajuana, and one just closed on Ebay last week.

I went from "Never HEARD of such" to "Own One and Seen Two More" in the course of one year.
  #25  
Old 05-30-2005, 04:49 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: self banned from talkbass....
Guitarron Origin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefoot Larry
Perhaps the Guitarron was a Mexican-American invention, and the Strolling Bass is what was developed across the border, both to replace the low strings on a harp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Cumpiano
William Cumpiano
The six string Mexican guitarron, also called the Guitarron de Toloche is characteristic of the state of Jalisco, and is the one most often seen in the Mariachi ensemble.

There is a also four-string model in Mexico which originated in the isthmus of Tehuantepec.
I remember seeing a small upright bass in "Born in East LA" [Cheech Marin] that looked like bass that GAL sells plans for but the top look to be FLAT, but it was hard to tell if it really was or not from the shot.
__________________
N@MELESS
My Home Page
I ♥ Fuzz
  #26  
Old 05-30-2005, 05:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Noguer
I remember seeing a small upright bass in "Born in East LA" [Cheech Marin] that looked like bass that GAL sells plans for but the top look to be FLAT, but it was hard to tell if it really was or not from the shot.
It might have been one of these. They are not flat, but close enough to it that a casual glance could easily see it as flat.

For a while, you can see the Ebay auction on one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...323942099&rd=1

Last edited by Barefoot Larry : 05-30-2005 at 05:06 PM.
  #27  
Old 05-31-2005, 06:13 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NYC, USA
I agree with Paul - thanks for that fascinating explanation, Larry.
  #28  
Old 05-31-2005, 06:58 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Interesting ax, the guitarron.

I saw a four piece Mariachi band at a local TexMex restaurant not long ago. They use gut string guitar, trumpet, fiddle and guitarron, and they all sing. I talked at some length with the guitarron player, which was a bit of a struggle because his English is limited and his accent thick. (Better'n my Spanish, though, which is none.) This was the first time I'd seen or heard a guitarron up close.

The body of his guitarron is huge, the back is very bowl- shaped with a beautifully made dovetail joint down the curved, V-shaped joint between the two halves. The wood in the back and neck looked like mahogany, the top looked like spruce, it has a very ornate rosette aroung the sound hole and equally ornate purfling around the top. The angle between the neck and headstock is probably close to 45 degrees and the neck is fretless. He uses a combination of gut and nylon strings (and says strings are hard to find) with massively high action/ string height. The fingerboard stops at the body, it's probably less than 12 inches long, and the string height at the neck/ body joint is probably 1/2- 5/8 of an inch. He tunes it down an octave and up a tone from a guitar, so that would be F#, C#, A, E, B, F# from the top down.

When he plays the top is nearly horizontal, necessitated by the deep bowl of the back. He sort of pinches or claws with his right hand, sort of pulling the strings out from the top and releasing them. He wraps his left thumb around the neck onto the fingerboard to stop strings a lot, a la Hendrix. I was amazed at the powerful sound he was able to produce, pulling two or three strings at once. No sustain, but a very rhythmic low end thump.
__________________
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
  #29  
Old 05-31-2005, 07:19 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Denver, Co.
I just happened to remember...our newest member of the esteemed TBDB crew of bass luthiers, Ken McKay, who accuses me of getting him involved in this "obsession" of bass luthierie here in Denver many years ago, got a chance to work on my guitarron that I mentioned above. It was one of his first restoration jobs, although not a DB, he did a great job, including a great ebony fingerboard with scallops on the end.
As most of you know, he's graduated to making DB's....the pear or guitar shaped bass he talks about under the Basses forum heading being his latest creation.
__________________
Oh, no.....have we gone OT yet again?
"The opportunity was there...but it never presented itself." Phil Urso, 1980. :atoz:
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Follow TalkBass on Twitter   Visit TalkBass on Facebook  

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:54 AM.




Copyright 2011 Talk Music Group Inc. All rights reserved.
Play guitar? Visit our new sister site TalkGuitar.com [beta]
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.