Used Cremona @ $600 worth looking at?

[gtrandbass]

Originally Posted by nicklloyd

Why is the seller parting with his 5 year old Cremona? Maybe because it needs $500+ worth of work?

Cremonas sound good in the store, and good for about 6 months. "Time bomb" is a perfect description. g/l junk funky.

Nick -- the seller said he never learned to play upright and he needs money, he plays electric at church, an older retired fellow.

[.matthew e wengerd.]

I can say without a doubt that the two Cremona BSOs (that's bass-shaped objects) that my college had hindered my ability to learn, play and enjoy double bass. I would honestly have been better off not playing DB until I could get something better. The basses, even after a decent setup were so difficult to coax a sound out of that I was causing physical damage to myself. Playing on a BSO is extremely discouraging and may cause someone undue frustration which may lead them to quit.

I agree, save a little more and get something that's a big step up.

[Whit Townsend]

I've played several Cremonas and Palintino chinese basses.
Tonewise, they were acceptable for typical plywood/bluegrass usage. A couple of them sounded better than some Englehearts I've played.
BUT:
aprox 50% of theses basses I know of expolded/required extensive repair work within the first year of their life.
Also, the necks are really chunky. One guy thinned his down some.
So, I think your looking a either a 5 yr old bass thats never needed any work and has proven itself, then I'd rather pay 600 for it than 600 for a new one.
Or:
Like was said, a 600 bass that needs 500-1000 of work. In that case best leave it alone.

[mje]

Originally Posted by gtrandbass

Nick -- the seller said he never learned to play upright and he needs money, he plays electric at church, an older retired fellow.

At radio swaps, the equivalent is "It worked the last time I turned it on..."

[Kcorren]

Found this site and some close up pics of the SB-1
model... Looks a little scary...





http://www.folkofthewood.com/page72.htm

[junk_funky]

Originally Posted by DRURB

A great looking, playing, and sounding upright? I understand that you are considering that it will work in a pinch and you are well aware that it may fall apart but-- "great playing and sounding?" Of course, I cannot challenge your perception but please do tell us what is the basis of comparison on which those superlatives are based.

Alrigh, alright, alright.

Maybe I'm the worst guy for an opinion, I started playing the upright yesterday. Literally. So I'm probably out of line on that one.

I've been playing electric for over ten years and for the last two profesionally. But I don't know that much about upright. I guess the whole point was that $600 used is too much if mine was $650 new. And it's no where near as shoddy as those pictures.

And maybe that was a little exagerated, it's most definitely not the best sounding upright in the world, but it does play good. My setup guy just hired me for some gigs so he set it up for free.

So there : P

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I bought a used Christopher ply that makes this look like www.firewood.com.
The Chrissy was $850 with bag and bow; properly set up by a luthier.

Although I think I paid less than the bass is worth, my advice is to run from this imitation.
This bass will need a new endpin and strings. The neck looks like it is set in Bondo.

Yes, basses are expensive, but if you do your homework and are willing to spend $1000 or more, you can get a nice instrument that will hold it's value.

[jb6884]

Originally Posted by mje

But I've noticed that every single buyer who talk up their Cremona is a newbie with their first instrument.

Not necessarily true. Until recently I owned a chinese plywood, different brand but several folks say (mje was one) it is the same bass with a different label. Anyhow, I have been playing for ~15 years and have owned some nice carved basses too. I've played in some "serious" (not prof) level symphonies, big band jazz groups, and bluegrass groups. I'm a weekend warrior / hobbyist musician (I have a "day" job) but I play on average about 50 gigs a year on DB. Is that still a newbie? You tell me... My chinese was built well from what I could tell (ie, I never had problems with it) - and it might have not sounded like an old carved bass, but it DID sound like a bass and was quite playable.

I think really what it boils down to is that the folks on this forum range from total newbies to top level professionals and luthiers.. regardless of playing level sometimes it is hard to keep opinions 'open minded'. Really the only advice you need for any instrument, regardless of pedigree, is to listen to it, play it, ask someone you trust to look at it with if you are a newbie, and to have a luthier inspect the instrument before purchasing it. In my opinion a $600 Chinese that is in good shape is WAY better than no bass at all.. offering up a $1400 dollar Shen as an alternative is great, but $1400 is a lot more than 600, and some folks just can't afford that.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by jb6884

...Really the only advice you need for any instrument, regardless of pedigree, is to listen to it, play it, ask someone you trust to look at it with if you are a newbie, and to have a luthier inspect the instrument before purchasing it. In my opinion a $600 Chinese that is in good shape is WAY better than no bass at all.. offering up a $1400 dollar Shen as an alternative is great, but $1400 is a lot more than 600, and some folks just can't afford that.

Yes, have a luthier inspect it. I agree. Now, how many highly-qualified and skilled luthiers would recommend buying such a bass? Given the a priori probability of them self-destructing, I'd say almost none would. $600 spent with the reasonable probability of ending up with firewood is much more costly than $1400 on a Shen that will last. Just my $0.02-worth. (BTW-- I'm not a newbie!)

[jb6884]

Originally Posted by DRURB

Now, how many highly-qualified and skilled luthiers would recommend buying such a bass?

I would expect a respectable luthier to explain that I was looking at a very cheap DB, and explain how and why it becomes www.firewood.com after 6 months, and the risks involved, etc. Then when he says "but over here, for just $800 more... " I get discouraged, leave, and don't buy anything.

Really, I'm not saying anyone *should* get a CCB over a Shen, Engle, Kay, Christopher, ETC, but if that's all you *can* get - it's still better than no bass at all. I definitely respect that everyone is recommending a nicer instrument - I am a huge proponent of owning instruments that inspire you to play them - however I just think some folks are going to the other extreme with these CCB's. Perhaps I had one of the few that lasted beyond the 6 months as reported in various posts.. I tend to think that is an exaggeration though. I never expected to get 20 years out of it, and I would guess the gentlemen asking in this thread isn't either. In my world of limited funds, practicality and other responsibilities & interests my CCB had it's place. That's all. I'm sorry for being different.

[mje]

Originally Posted by jb6884

... Until recently I owned a chinese plywood, different brand but several folks say (mje was one) it is the same bass with a different label. ... My chinese was built well from what I could tell (ie, I never had problems with it) - and it might have not sounded like an old carved bass, but it DID sound like a bass and was quite playable.... In my opinion a $600 Chinese that is in good shape is WAY better than no bass at all.. ....

Yes, but that's a big if. You may well have had an exceptional bass. There's a lot of variability there. But most of these $400-800 basses are garbage, and spending that much money on a bass that won't last a year or two before collapsing means you've lost money that could have gone into a good bass.

Most people buying these don't have the oppportunity to show them to a luthier. In general, the advice still stands: Avoid them. There are plenty of inexpensive, well-built, used basses still out there to be found.

[banjo-tom]

Really, I'm not saying anyone *should* get a CCB over a Shen, Engle, Kay, Christopher, ETC, but if that's all you *can* get - it's still better than no bass at all. I definitely respect that everyone is recommending a nicer instrument - I am a huge proponent of owning instruments that inspire you to play them - however I just think some folks are going to the other extreme with these CCB's.

You know something?
If that's all you can afford then Pass .
A newbie is better off without a bass than with a crappy CCB.
Save your hard earned money & don't throw it away.
You think the firewood stories are exaggerated?
I recently brought in my christopher 200 for setup to my luthier; one of the best in Toronto. During the phone call they made it quite clear to me that they will decide on accepting the job AFTER they take a look. My bass passed their inspection.
They have a policy of not accepting CCB repairs simply because they stand behind their work and don't need unhappy customers.
Beware of CCB's
Everyone who plays here keeps telling you / me / us that.
They are trying to spare us the aggravation of playing a crappy piece of Bass. Just because it doesn't expode in one year doesn't mean it is playable.
You say an instrument should "inspire you" well that starts with a playable instrument
You say everyone is recommending a " NICER " instrument.
You are missing the point.
I think everyone is trying to recommend that you purchase a REAL instrument, not a nightmare.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by banjo-tom

You know something?
If that's all you can afford then Pass .
A newbie is better off without a bass than with a crappy CCB.
Save your hard earned money & don't throw it away.
You think the firewood stories are exaggerated?
I recently brought in my christopher 200 for setup to my luthier; one of the best in Toronto. During the phone call they made it quite clear to me that they will decide on accepting the job AFTER they take a look. My bass passed their inspection.
They have a policy of not accepting CCB repairs simply because they stand behind their work and don't need unhappy customers.
Beware of CCB's
Everyone who plays here keeps telling you / me / us that.
They are trying to spare us the aggravation of playing a crappy piece of Bass. Just because it doesn't expode in one year doesn't mean it is playable.
You say an instrument should "inspire you" well that starts with a playable instrument
You say everyone is recommending a " NICER " instrument.
You are missing the point.
I think everyone is trying to recommend that you purchase a REAL instrument, not a nightmare.

+1! BRAVO!

[drurb]

Originally Posted by jb6884

I would expect a respectable luthier to explain that I was looking at a very cheap DB, and explain how and why it becomes www.firewood.com after 6 months, and the risks involved, etc. Then when he says "but over here, for just $800 more... " I get discouraged, leave, and don't buy anything.

Really, I'm not saying anyone *should* get a CCB over a Shen, Engle, Kay, Christopher, ETC, but if that's all you *can* get - it's still better than no bass at all. I definitely respect that everyone is recommending a nicer instrument - I am a huge proponent of owning instruments that inspire you to play them - however I just think some folks are going to the other extreme with these CCB's. Perhaps I had one of the few that lasted beyond the 6 months as reported in various posts.. I tend to think that is an exaggeration though. I never expected to get 20 years out of it, and I would guess the gentlemen asking in this thread isn't either. In my world of limited funds, practicality and other responsibilities & interests my CCB had it's place. That's all. I'm sorry for being different.

Well, our little scenario involves a respectable luthier. You would get discouraged and leave? That would be unfortunate, especially after that luthier explained that you were looking at a time-bomb that would likely impede your progress.

Believe me, I do not have unlimited funds. I believe banjo-tom is right on the money (pun intended) when he says if that is all you can afford, then pass. In my opinion, if you are going to play this instrument and you care at all about your progress toward artistry, you must make the commitment to get a decent instrument. Not fancy, not the best, but decent.

On second thought, if all you thought had to spend was $600 and you were really committed, I think you could get a decent instrument if you 1) stretched your budget to, at least, $1000 and were 2) willing to go on a decent hunt. Sometimes luthiers have "beater basses" that they rent out and might be willing to sell for reduced prices. They are often decent instruments with cosmetic faults. Then there is the used market...
My point is that I believe it can be done without, risking shooting yourself in the foot by buying a CCB. Again, based on the a priori odds, they can, indeed, be worse than nothing because of the likelihood that you will end up with exactly that (i.e., nothing) after spending your limited $$$.

We can agree to disagree. Okay, I'm done.

[jb6884]

Originally Posted by banjo-tom

You are missing the point.

Jeez man.. I don't think I missed my own point of: I am not a newbie, I've owned one, it was playable, it did not explode, I was able to sell it for a little less than I paid for it. I love you guys.

[jfv]

Originally Posted by jb6884

Jeez man.. I don't think I missed my own point of: I am not a newbie, I've owned one, it was playable, it did not explode, I was able to sell it for a little less than I paid for it. I love you guys.

Think about this scenario, at a bazaar there are these scam
artists, they specialize in 'ripping people off', but in order to
stay in business every so often they have to give someone
a fair deal.

Now think about that person who is the 1 in 1000, how is
that person behaving when, whenever someone alerts others
to the fact that this is a ripoff, they jump up and down saying
NO NO, I got this great deal...

What do you think of that person? Funny how the foibles
of human nature end up making some free 'protection' for
the scam artists. That person is actually helping the scam
artists rip off 999 people.

Now ask yourself, do YOU really want to be that person?

[gtrandbass]

Thank you again for these insights -- I have decided to dump the idea of getting (or even a look at) this Cremona

[ToR-Tu-Ra]

You could maybe go and take a look at it so you'll be able to tell the difference between a crappy bass, a decent one, a better one and a great one.

[gtrandbass]

Originally Posted by ToR-Tu-Ra

You could maybe go and take a look at it so you'll be able to tell the difference between a crappy bass, a decent one, a better one and a great one.

Very good idea -- I actually decided to do that before I read you response!

PS: I lived in Edo de Mex near Satelite for couple of years in late 90's -- I love Mexico!