Vintage bass modifications / restorations

PaulKing · #1 10-12-2009, 04:57 AM

To any vintage plywood afficionados here...

A King Moretone is a very desirable bass, renowned big sound, cool looks. But...

how much of a bad thing is a full restoration? A 1954 bass with full re-finish (done ages ago), lost purfling and loop on the back? Is that too sad? How much of the character and inherent value was in the original finish, even if it was pretty shabby?
I really like these when they show their age, scars and all... but it does look pretty as a picture now.

Second ... lots around with neck breaks that have been fixed. What if someone fixed it with a bolt in the 1970s? And what if that person was Chuck Traeger? Is that something you can forgive? It's obviously stable...

GM60466 · #2 10-12-2009, 05:30 AM

Put as much money as you can afford into this bass. Forget about "Vintage" and spend the cash on playability. Nice Bass

G

PaulKing · #3 10-12-2009, 05:37 AM

Yeah thanks G, I kind of like it too.
It's not mine yet, but I'm keen.

LeslieD · #4 10-12-2009, 06:57 AM

That's the one at Shanks? I've wondered about that bass, but the string length is in the neighborhood of 43" --a bit too long for me. If the bass is stable and has the sound you want, I personally wouldn't worry about cosmetic modifications/restorations. In its new form/condition it's still very pretty (at least from the front and back).

I think the price is reasonable if this is a bass you plan to keep and play for a long while. If you change your mind though, and decide it's not your cup of tea...down the road the restorations/modifications will likely make it harder to sell again. Before you buy, ask Linda or Mike if they'll take it back at full value (or near full-value) for a trade in on a different bass.

Oh Geez--you really live in England? That might make returning a bass a little more difficult!

drurb · #5 10-12-2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GM60466

Put as much money as you can afford into this bass. Forget about "Vintage" and spend the cash on playability. Nice Bass

G

Yes and no.

I wouldn't sink as much as you can afford into it unless this is the bass that speaks to you and its value to you as an instrument is not based on its vintage status or its likely appreciation. Sure, resale value is important but, as G suggests, focus on playability and on the sound of the bass.

PaulKing · #6 10-12-2009, 07:37 AM

What I need is a bit of sensible thought here. So thanks.

I admit to being a bit obsessed with the idea of owning a King, let's make that clear. So I'm being a bit excitable and foolish already.

And I live in the UK. So I'm being even more foolish, cos I can't test drive so have no idea how it sounds. And I have to pay shipping. But King's are SO rare over here (with added bonus that they keep their value).

I've never played a 43" string length ... I know that's tough, but I'm a big guy. I might get a shock I guess. I wouldn't be playing this bass exclusively, so I'd have to get used to adjusting my playing between basses. Hmmm...

I've looked at a lot of Kings over some time, and I haven't liked them all ... but this one speaks to me. It's pretty from all angles, with just enough scars to show its age.

I'm not scared of getting set up done and have a very friendly luthier. But I wouldn't want to sink too much cash into it ... I just put a fair amount into an old Kay. Well, 2 old Kays to be accurate. So I have to be careful that I'm not doing this just for fun.

What you all say about sound and playability over collectability is of course right ... but if that really was all then a) I could buy any other bass, and b) I wouldn't need to buy it from the States!
I do also recognise that indefinable pleasure and emotional value associated with owning something that speaks to you.

BTW - Yes, it is the bass at Shanks ... perhaps I shouldn't be posting their pics here actually. Someone Mod me if that's bad form.

(PS Drurb ... there's a package somewhere over the Atlantic. Look out.)

davidprice · #7 10-12-2009, 07:53 AM

Price seems pretty reasonable and, given the greater rarity and value in the UK (and that its coming from a reputable dealer), I'd think you should be able to recoup your investment. And if you really vibe with it, you could always do a more 'correct' restoration/re-refinish.

Those Mortones are really cool IMO... Good luck on it!

drurb · #8 10-12-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulKing

I've looked at a lot of Kings over some time, and I haven't liked them all ... but this one speaks to me.

(PS Drurb ... there's a package somewhere over the Atlantic. Look out.)

Thanks for sending the package. I think I know what's in it!

Very kind of you.

Now, when I mentioned a bass "speaking to you" I was referring to acoustically, not visually-- although both are important. I think each player should, of course, set his/her own priorities. The conventional wisdom is to weigh sound/playability over collectibility, appreciation, etc. On the other hand, if you have a place in your heart for such instruments, and it seem that you do, then enjoy! Still, it would be a shame if you had that bass sent all the way across the Atlantic and it didn't live up to the sound you want.

Perhaps the good folks at Shanks could send you a video. Not ideal, but it's something. Maybe a few trusted players here would be willing to check it out for you. If I were within striking distance, I sure would.

Steve Swan · #9 10-12-2009, 09:02 AM

Congratulations! American Standard, King Moretone, and Epiphone are my favorite kinds of domestically made vintage plywood basses. This one should a a nice instrument once it's gotten proper sevicing. Let us know how it turns out.

PaulKing · #10 10-12-2009, 09:23 AM

I know Steve, you had that 1961 bass listed ... sold right? Description sounded amazing, outta my price range!

I haven't got my hands on this one yet ... just a matter of time and a few things working out. May yet be out of my reach.

Ooo..errr, have I gone a bit too public with this? Difficult cos I need a bit of guidance, but don't want to expose anything I shouldn't about dealers. I forget how many dealers hang around on here...

hdiddy · #11 10-12-2009, 10:05 AM

Nice bass.... looks like its got mojo. Heck, if you have a bad affliction for a particular bass, I get it just to cure you of the notion. I used to have a thing for Fender guitars... so I cured it but it's much easier at a $700 price tag. Still, if it doesn't turn out well, you should be able to trade it away without losing that much. You will likely incur a loss, so it is a gamble.

There is always a possibility that it lands at your doorstep and sounding like ass. Maybe have the seller play it over the phone for you? I'd try to do it with Skype as the audio is better.

LeslieD · #12 10-12-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulKing

Ooo..errr, have I gone a bit too public with this? Difficult cos I need a bit of guidance, but don't want to expose anything I shouldn't about dealers. I forget how many dealers hang around on here...

No, the "oops" is mine. I shouldn't have publicly asked you who was offering this bass. I just thought I recognized it. But...I don't think anyone would rush right out and try to snag it while you're still trying to decide. Also, I don't have anything controversial/critical to say about the sellers.

Steve Swan · #13 10-12-2009, 11:24 AM

Paul,

I would expect the 1954 King Moretone to be a little more responsive than the 1961 that I've been using as a festival bass when it's to dry for my all-solid German-made bass. The neck joint is the weak part of the American Standards and the King Moretones and the fingerboards are usually worn out if it's been used a lot. If your perspective and experience comes from Kay or Engelhardt, these basses can be quite a revelation.

PaulKing · #14 10-13-2009, 04:04 AM

Thanks for all those words of wisdom.
I still like the bass.

I'm also going on the experiences of people I know who own Kings ... all very positive.
I gather the slap sound can be a bit more lively than on a Kay, but my '38 Kay is pretty lively and responsive anyway (even compared to other Kays I've played).
Otherwise there seems pretty universal agreement on the superior response / volume / projection compared to a Kay. A bigger sound ... and possibly a revelation to me.
(Although they all vary, and any bass can be a dud, I know...)

I also have a fantastic 1960s Czech ply bass ... I doubt many US plys will ever match it, even if they do have the more desirable brand name!!

PaulKing · #15 10-28-2009, 05:06 AM

After much deliberation, much conversation with the sellers and much comparison with other basses (Kay, King and carved)... this bass is on its way to London.

As a bonus (to me at least) they had remembered the serial number wrongly. It is #1114, 1938 (not 1954).
Should sit nicely alongside my 1938 Kay M-2, shouting 'No! Play ME tonight...'.

Will it survive the journey???? (Yes I have insurance.)

Stanley Design · #16 10-28-2009, 08:28 AM

I was going to tell you to pull the trigger on it, sounds like a no-risk investment since there will be somebody in your neck of the woods eager to buy it if you don't like it, and if you do like it that's even better.

PaulKing · #17 10-28-2009, 08:40 AM

Exactly what I was telling my wife.

MollyKay · #18 10-28-2009, 10:47 AM

Congratulations Paul! This will round out your collection. Now you need and Epiphone and American Standard.

Could I ask when you have the time to shoot me a PM with the shipping details? I am interested in the process.