Vintage Canadian Basses?

[Feral Feline]

Alright, I've searched TB, the Web and the library. Perhaps I need to refine my searches, re-word them somehow, but there seems to be little if any documentation of Vintage Canadian Bass Luthiers.

Any names? Info? Who was Canada's Prescott, Juzek or Pfretzschner?

[AMJBASS]

George Heinl. I am not sure how many basses that he made however(it could be as few as 1).

[bejoyous]

The only older makers I know of are Kay Arvi from Prince Edward Island. He makes big basses with violin corners. I remember back in the 80's that his finishes were quite rough. He's famous for making a whole section's worth of basses for the Chicago SO

Another well-know maker is Peter Chandler from near London, Ontario. He died recently. He made about 70 basses or so (I have #33) plus several cellos, vertical violas (properly sized violas that were so big they needed an endpin), violins and a few harps.

Don Gorman is making basses now that sound pretty awesome.

Max Kasper of Symphony Nova Scotia plays a bass and bow that he's made.

While Reid Hudson never made any basses, as far as I know, he makes awesome bows that are known all over the world.

George Heinl, the founder of the violin shop in Toronto made a very nice bass in the mid 20th century some time. I recall it's listed in Paul Brun's book (sp?). One of its former owners won a gig in the Montreal SO with it I believe.

As for something pre-1900, I just don't know. Maybe we were too busy clearing trees, plowing fields and fishing to be making basses, eh!

I'm sure there are a few older gems hidden in the loft of some barn or in some basement closet somewhere but I can't think of any particular older generation makers of basses.

Maybe Jack de V can think of some others.

How come someone who plays in Irish bars in Southeast Asia is interested in Canadian bass makers?

[Jake deVilliers]

Jack who? Geez...

Jim Hamm in Victoria's been at it for a while, as has Brock Radelet.

In Montreal there's Mario Lamarre and in Toronto there's Inokuchi & Son who made Joel Quarrington's cornerless bass.

In the early days there was RS Williams who made pianos and violin family instruments as well as importing them from Europe in the white. It was Williams who donated the Dragonetti da Salo to the Royal Ontario Museum.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by bejoyous

The only older makers I know of are Kay Arvi from Prince Edward Island. He's famous for making a whole section's worth of basses for the Chicago SO

Wasn't that Peter Elias, formerly of Canada?

[Feral Feline]

Thanks guys, but I think that Hamm, Inokuchi, Gorman, Radelet, Lamarre (who I'm already aware of) and most of the others wouldn't want to be thought of as "Vintage" just yet.

There are some new names for me to check out (Kay Arvi, Peter Chandler, Peter Elias and perhaps RS Williams), so thank you all for your input, but, as I should've made more clear in the original post, I'm looking for Canuck luthiers busy before or at the Turn-of-the-Century (not the one that coincided with the recent new millennium) and on up to maybe the '50s at the latest.

Originally Posted by bejoyous

...How come someone who plays in Irish bars in Southeast Asia is interested in Canadian bass makers?

Hint: 'Cause I was raised on handpicked wild Saskatoonberries!

Thanks again everyone. Please let me know if you come across some old'uns.

Cheers,
FF

[bejoyous]

Originally Posted by ehochberg

Wasn't that Peter Elias, formerly of Canada?

Oops, I can't remember everything. There's Elias basses in Orchestra London, Hamilton Phil/Canadian Opera Co. and the Toronto SO (and probably others). They have such a great, heavy smooth sound. I always think of dark chocolate pudding when I hear them.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Jack who? Geez...

That was funny, Jack.

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

That was funny, Jack.

F*ck off!

[Paul Warburton]

Tough times @ TB huh, Jack?

[Feral Feline]

Gentlemen! Crikey, it's turning into Day of the Jackal here. Mind if I jack back into my thread?

Jake, didn't you mean to say to PW "Ja..." uhm, nevermind.

Anyway, I see that you are a man of many talents: Bass connoisseur, woodworker (you mean lumberjack?), business owner, string repairman, luthier, if I recall correctly while visiting Crescent Beach Guitars' website you're not just a bass player you're a multi-instrumentalist, and hey! Witchdoctor to boot! Bet you're part bass historian too. A real jack-of-all-trades.

So tell me Jock, uh, Jake, what about these Elias basses? I don't know Jack about'm. Worth less than a King I'm guessin'?

Okay, no more Jaking around...

[GerardSamija]

I have worked on one bass each from two Vancouver luthiers of the previous generation.

Fred Carlsson (if I'm recalling the spelling - could be one 's') made a dark blood-red bass with violin corners and quite rounded arching in 1963, I think. It's been more than 10 years since I saw it, and memory is a bit hazy. The varnish was almost opaque, showing little of the grain beneath. Ribs were of very twisty but non-flamed wood, showing a lot of cracks. The varnish was glassy-hard, like a baked enamel or something, amazingly tough stuff. Bass was pretty solid arco, not so interesting pizz. I made a C-extension for it and put on new tuners, as the originals were something like recycled Kluzons. The work generally showed considerable understanding of the craft, if a little provincial in execution. Not to say he didn't have skill - lots of confident work in evidence, just not really a mainstream sort of instrument. I know nothing else of this maker.

The other was a well-known restorer in the 1960's through early 1970's called Sidney Orpwood, who I think had a workshop and storefront on East Hastings Street somewhere. Apparently self taught, many of his restorations showed either a disdain for tradition or ignorance of same. His bassbars were most obviously his own. These were often of Douglas fir, quite dense, and cut lower than most integral bars in the middle, then tapering not much towards the ends. About twice as deep at the middle as at the ends, then were at deepest about 1" deep. Also slightly narrower than usual, and slightly shorter end to end. This frequently led to some arching collapse over the following decades, though not usually catastrophically. His gluing was solid, and in one case where a bass was badly crushed in a car accident he pieced together dozens of splinteres to make the belly whole again, with very little new wood added. His varnish was a sort of signature; honey-amber in colour and a classic soft oil varnish texture, it was slightly muddy, but had sufficient clarity to see the wood well. An unfortunate penchant for stripping instruments and re-varnishing... but at least he did it well, unlike so many would-be restorers who paint on any old thing after abusing the wood beneath.

Sidney is known to have made only 3 basses, and of these I've seen and worked on only one. This was his last, completed in 1971 after some trouble with the belly seams starting in 1969. The belly was made in 3 planks, not the usual bookmatched 2. The centre plank went from f-hole to f-hole upper circle, and the holes are more widely separated than average. It was absolutely flat between the glue lines going across the arching, only curving into more of a barrel shape towards the end blocks. The arching then becomes arching-proper at the glue lines, suddenly dropping down rather dramatically towards the outer edges. Varnish was the same golden-amber. A rather large 7/8ths size bass if memory serves. Also made his own tunable tailpieces, on this and some other basses, using a massive piece of ebony and individual brass frets for each string riding on small brass threaded rods with brass knurled knobs on the top edge of the tailpiece to adjust tail section string lengths. Very convenient to accomodate the rule of 2 octaves and a 5th above open string pitch, allowing for variability of silk weight and other factors in string construction from brand to brand and string to string. Unfortunately a bit of a boat anchor in mass.

The belly of this one bass I've seen has suffered quite dramatic collapse, to the extent that the inside toes of the bridge feet cannot meet the belly even though they've twisted the adjuster shafts considerably under string pressure. This, after several attempts at re-fitting the feet to accomodate the collapse. The middle under the bridge has apparently gone down more than 1/2" from original contour. I was given only a brief opportunity to attempt gluing of one open section of belly joint on the upper bass side. Was able to make it stop buzzing and stay closed, using a few small cleats put in through the f-hole. Sound was quite massive, if a bit chaotic. Used primarily as a pizz instrument, and not often I think.

My sense of Sidney Orpwood generally was of a conscientious and hard working luthier with a pragmatic attitude towards instruments. He made them work, not worrying too much about how tradition dictated things ought to be done. For the most part he seems to have succeeded. I've met a few players who knew him, and liked him, and the word 'interesting' has come up a few times in talking about the man. Wish I'd known him but I was about 11 or so when he died.

Earlier it was stated that Reid Hudson had probably not made any basses. Not strictly true. Reid worked on a bass many, many years ago, but did not complete it I think. I saw the ribs on the mould a couple of times in visits to buy wood in the 1980's. Later, he worked with Zak Stolk to first make a new belly for an old bass, then later helped Zak make another bass or two when Zak was getting established. Zak is another modern Canadian bass luthier not previously mentioned here, I think. His basses are now approximately equal to those of Peter Chandler in terms of finish, refinement in the carving, and inconsistency of sound, with some succeeding very well and others not quite. This continues what he said about his own work when I met him in the early 1990's at a showing of Island makers' work. He had a number of fiddles there, and two 'cellos. One was more refined in finish, but didn't deliver even or particularly good tone. The other, just recently finished and still smelling of lavender oil, positively bursting with sound. I played it for half an hour in a hallway of the church where that show took place, and only pressure from the lineup of eager 'cellists waiting forced me to let it go. While rather ugly to look at, the thing just begged to be played. I asked him what made the difference. He couldn't say, and expressed frustration that he didn't know what he had done right, or done wrong in the other case. He sold that 'cello easily that afternoon to a young teenager, for $4,000 - at the time I think the most he had earned for an instrument by FAR, considering his average violin price was about $300. Tends to make rather large basses.

[Greg Sheldon]

It's been a long time since I was in on a discussion like this, but I remember Monahan was certain the George Heinl bass was the oldest Canadian bass. It's currently owned by Pat McPhail in Toronto. Not sure of the year, but 1950's would be a good guess.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

Wasn't that Peter Elias, formerly of Canada?

yes, that's right.

[Paul Warburton]

My Elgar books are in storage at the moment, but if I remember correctly, Heinl was the only maker listed in there.

We have words when alluding to old things like "Vintage", "Antique" and to make things even more confusing, in terms of string instruments, we throw in the word "Master". "Old World" gets on my nerves too.
Sometimes when I hear this stuff I think of George Carlin.

[patmcp]

Jimmy Smith, from out Picton, Ontario, way, had mentioned to me on a number of occasions that he remembers the shaving on the floor of the shop on Church Street as he and Frank Heinl worked on it...

The Raymond Elgar book, "Looking at the Double Bass", published in '67, has a brief clip on the Heinl Bass (book says 1957, the sticker inside says 1958) which ends with "This contemporary family firm made a fine bass in 1957. Deep Gold oil varnish. Fine workmanship. Probably the only professionally made Canadian bass..."

don't know if this helps or not, just thought i'd share because it's sitting in my basement presently...

[Bass]

Pics please!

[neal davis]

Not older makers but Steve Martinko(sp?) and Troy Miliker(sp?) the two bass luthiers at Heinl now do great work and have made some beautiful instruments. I almost bought one of Steve's basses that he originally made for Dave Young.

[GerardSamija]

Oops, I managed to leave out a rather interesting maker who used to work in Montreal - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvio_de_Lellis
The bits below the line are my contribution from a couple of years ago, when I was given the job of restoring Sylvio's one bass after an incident involving a bassist in a hurry, a driveway, and a minivan...

[eh_train]

Hi Feral, hi all,

Gerard mentioned Carlsson, which reminded me that someone sold, or attempted to sell, one of his basses on Ebay (perhaps 4 or so years ago). They said it dated from around 1960. It had been badly beaten up, then restored. It definitely didn't look pristine however, as you could still see evidence of substantial cracks around the neck joint and upper ribs. The varnish was quite reddish, as I recall.

The best part of this, though, is that the seller said the bass had been damaged in a train accident - how much more CANADIAN can you get??? I suppose it could also have been injured in a dog-sledding or canoeing incident.

Cheers,

Paul (Eh_train)

[quote=GerardSamija;8617929]I have worked on one bass each from two Vancouver luthiers of the previous generation.

Fred Carlsson (if I'm recalling the spelling - could be one 's') made a dark blood-red bass with violin corners and quite rounded arching in 1963, I think. It's been more than 10 years since I saw it, and memory is a bit hazy. The varnish was almost opaque, showing little of the grain beneath. Ribs were of very twisty but non-flamed wood, showing a lot of cracks. The varnish was glassy-hard, like a baked enamel or something, amazingly tough stuff. Bass was pretty solid arco, not so interesting pizz. I made a C-extension for it and put on new tuners, as the originals were something like recycled Kluzons. The work generally showed considerable understanding of the craft, if a little provincial in execution. Not to say he didn't have skill - lots of confident work in evidence, just not really a mainstream sort of instrument. I know nothing else of this maker.