Warming up the bass?

[AZNBassist]

I've commonly heard claims or statements that before a gig its best to spend about 10-20 minutes just bowing long tones on the bass so that it "warms up" or "opens up" and gets a better sound. I'm just wondering if anyone has actually tried doing this or if anyone knows the actual physics behind this claim?

[Jason Sypher]

Most of my teachers have mentioned this term over the years. It seems to be true that after you play a little the bass is vibrating more fully. Physically I can't explain it.

[flint]

I think part of that phenomena is b/c the bass is against your body, and changes temperature becuase of that proximity.

nevertheless, I do experience a difference after the warmup also.

[moles]

Could it also partly be an effect of the strings loosening up as a result of being played on? I know that it will settle in the tuning when you play for awhile on BG, the strings vibrate and warm up, tension goes down etc....Does anyone find this happens as much after extended bowing?

[drurb]

Originally Posted by AZNBassist

I've commonly heard claims or statements that before a gig its best to spend about 10-20 minutes just bowing long tones on the bass so that it "warms up" or "opens up" and gets a better sound. I'm just wondering if anyone has actually tried doing this or if anyone knows the actual physics behind this claim?

I suspect what is mostly responsible for this alleged effect is the warming up and loosening up of your hands! Try having someone else "warm up" your bass and assess to what degree that helps. This is not to say that there are no physical changes in the instrument. It is just that my suspicion is that it has far more to do with the player than it does with the bass.

[philip sirois]

Originally Posted by drurb

I suspect what is mostly responsible for this alleged effect is the warming up and loosening up of your hands! Try having someone else "warm up" your bass and assess to what degree that helps. This is not to say that there are no physical changes in the instrument. It is just that my suspicion is that it has far more to do with the player than it does with the bass.

It makes a lot of sense to me. I was also always a little suspect about positive changes in the bass over time, especially a couple of years or less. My sense would be that much of the "opening up" of the bass that people speak of has to do with a player getting better and better at getting the most out of that particular instrument. Learning the ins and outs, the special way you have to stroke it to get it to purr. I am sure there are physical changes, but the human element is often overlooked.

[WalterBush]

Originally Posted by drurb

I suspect what is mostly responsible for this alleged effect is the warming up and loosening up of your hands! Try having someone else "warm up" your bass and assess to what degree that helps. This is not to say that there are no physical changes in the instrument. It is just that my suspicion is that it has far more to do with the player than it does with the bass.

This has always been my theory, too. I was told to let the bass "open up" but it seemed to me that the only opening up was in my hands. If I warm up, and set my bass down for an hour before a show, then pick it up, I'm still warm, even though my bass isn't. I think it's the player. Plus, I like bowing low notes, as well as squawking and sqealing just to annoy the other musicians in the pit

[joel kelsey]

This is a cool thread. I was actually thinking of starting a thread like this. It SEEMS like my bass gets louder after I play for a little while. It also SEEMS like there is a little bit more string tension when I start playing. It also SEEMS like my bass has a thinner sound at first. After I play for a while it feels like my bass has less tension, is louder, and has a bigger sound. I have often wondered whether it was me or my bass that "opened up". I have heard both sides argued but I have yet to see any scientific research on the subject.

[Eli_Upright12]

Originally Posted by philip sirois

It makes a lot of sense to me. I was also always a little suspect about positive changes in the bass over time, especially a couple of years or less. My sense would be that much of the "opening up" of the bass that people speak of has to do with a player getting better and better at getting the most out of that particular instrument. Learning the ins and outs, the special way you have to stroke it to get it to purr. I am sure there are physical changes, but the human element is often overlooked.

I have to disagree a little with the thought that the bass doesn't change over time. When I was buying my first bass I asked the luthier if it was going to be a problem that my bass would be in a room above where my brother Metal band played and he said "No that'll actually be really good for it" he went on to explain some of the physics of it and the fact that the wood matures with vibrations so that over time in fact the wood gains a fuller more beautiful sound. I think your Idea about players improving is also true though.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

I have to disagree a little with the thought that the bass doesn't change over time. When I was buying my first bass I asked the luthier if it was going to be a problem that my bass would be in a room above where my brother Metal band played and he said "No that'll actually be really good for it" he went on to explain some of the physics of it and the fact that the wood matures with vibrations so that over time in fact the wood gains a fuller more beautiful sound. I think your Idea about players improving is also true though.

The original question was about short-term changes. That is, does the bass "warm up" with play over a few minutes or so. My reply was that any such short-term effects would likely have more to do with changes to the player than to the bass.

Philip Sirois slipped in mention of long-term changes over the course of years. With regard to those, my jury is still out. Yes, I've heard similar claims from luthiers but I have yet to see any scientific explanation of or evidence for wood "maturing" over so short a term as a few years. I can understand substantial physical changes that take place over decades but not over a handful of years. The one exception, perhaps, would be the difference between a brand new bass and that same bass a few months later. I have no proof that this is the case, but I can understand how things might "settle in." I think many of the changes in basses that are purported to take place across a few years are related to the interaction of the player with the instrument, just as Philip described.

I would be happy to be disabused of these notions by the presentation of contrary empirical evidence.

[Eli_Upright12]

I agree that the biggest change would be early on, and that the biggest changes would come after many years, it might also just be an age thing, for instance the basses that they build out of wood from old European churches, that don't experience the intense vibrations usually end up sounding great. I also agree that the relationship between the player and the instrument is extremely important and I agree that in terms of warmign up the bass it is probably more of a human occurence than the bass actually changing, other than maybe string tension loosening up a little.

[Nicky Schwartz]

Yeah, I hear that. It also seems to stay big sounding throughout the day, even if you've not played it for some hours.

[M Ramsey]

Taylor guitars (west coast acoustic guitars) actually studied the effects of guitars that had been exposed to vibrations as opposed to ones that hadn't.

There's always differing qualities of instruments (even ones that come off the assembly line sequentially, out of the same batches of wood) but they (Taylor) did recommend a friend to expose his guitar to a loud stereo speaker on a regular basis to help the instrument "open up."

I've done the same thing with mandolins and guitars. That's what happens to "vintage" instruments, partially. It's not just the drying out of wood that makes older instruments responsive. Mostly it's due to being played.

Many folks invest lots of money in "mint condition" Martin guitars. If they are in "mint conditon" they didn't get played very much during heir lifetime. Most of those guitars that I have seen have a very tight, unresponsive sound.

The beat up ones are the ones that sound good, due to having the vibrations transferred through them due to playing.

Certian types of spruce are very responsive to "warming up." Especially red spruce, often referred to as Adirondak (sp?)spruce. I've witnessed this myself over years with a mandolin I built for my son. The mandolin is now 10 years old and Aaron has put it through the paces, often 4-6 hours a day.

I'd wager that the "long tones" DO actually help the wood to "wake up."

YMMV

[Norwegianwood]

When it comes to warming up, I think it´s much more the player than the wood. (On horns, that´s a totally different story, though!)

On long term, I have heard that it is not so much the age of the instrument as the amount of vibration that matters. There´s a guy over here who built himself some kind of machine that would play his bass constantly.

My teacher told me that when I have played alot in the highest registers on the bass, it will probably response better to those frequencies. But I have no scientific evidence on this what so ever, and would be happy to see it.

[jsbarber]

My teacher told me he always bows long open notes on E and A to open up the bass before performing. He is very much convinced that this effect is real. I do this as part of my warm-up every day and I can hear and feel my bass open up. (Mind you my instrument is only about 3 months old, so the effect might be more pronounced on a new instrument.)

I don't disagree with him. When you start up your car it takes a couple of minutes for it to warm up. It takes time for us bass players to warm up. There is a lot of flexing going on in the wood when the instrument is being played. I don't see why it would be any different for the instrument.

Jim

[drurb]

Originally Posted by jsbarber

My teacher told me he always bows long open notes on E and A to open up the bass before performing. He is very much convinced that this effect is real. I do this as part of my warm-up every day and I can hear and feel my bass open up. (Mind you my instrument is only about 3 months old, so the effect might be more pronounced on a new instrument.)

I don't disagree with him. When you start up your car it takes a couple of minutes for it to warm up. It takes time for us bass players to warm up. There is a lot of flexing going on in the wood when the instrument is being played. I don't see why it would be any different for the instrument.

Jim

Well, cars are very different than basses. There's a great deal of flexing going on in tendons and muscles in addition to increased blood flow. There's just no doubt about that. As far as the wood, well I just don't envision as substantial an effect.

[Matthew Tucker]

My observations of an instrument "in construction" over a long period are that the wood twists and moves so much with humidity changes, the wood fibres and the glue seem to "relax" and eventually the instrument finds a kind of dynamic stability all by itself. By extension, I find it perfectly plausible, and likely, that exposing an instrument to patterns of vibration and use over time will help the instrument to relax into a state where resonance is easier and thus louder and richer for the same playing effort. Some luthiers even go so far as to try to artificially accelerate this process using "vibration dedamping" and although many will shoot this down as hocus pocus, I personally believe it could have some merit. I discussed in an earlier thread my discovery about relaxing the strings every now and then - and my own feeling is its far more likely that this process changes tension in the wood of the instrument than in the string itself.

[jsbarber]

Originally Posted by drurb

... As far as the wood, well I just don't envision as substantial an effect.

Try it. I can hear the difference on my bass, and so can my instructor on his... [In fact he told me he was doing a recording session one time when he did this and the recording engineer commented to him on the change in tone of his instrument.]

Jim

[drurb]

Originally Posted by jsbarber

Try it. I can hear the difference on my bass, and so can my instructor on his... [In fact he told me he was doing a recording session one time when he did this and the recording engineer commented to him on the change in tone of his instrument.]

Jim

Well, I will. The experiment is just so fraught with bias, though.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

...I find it perfectly plausible, and likely, that exposing an instrument to patterns of vibration and use over time...

So do I if "over time" means decades or, perhaps, as I stated in an earlier post, a shorter time if the instrument is brand new.