What brand is my Bass

Jim S · #1 10-25-2009, 02:10 PM

I just bought a beat up old Bass that has no identification marks or numbers on it. I took it to three luthiers who think it started it's life as a Kay, sometime in the 1940's, except for one thing. The front is maple plywood, and none of these guys have ever heard of a Kay with a Maple front. Did Kay ever make a Bass with a Maple plywood front? This thing has badly delaminated and suffered great abuse, but it sounds fine. It's the first Bass I've ever owned and I'm having a lot of fun learning to play.

JAGGL3S · #2 10-25-2009, 02:16 PM

You Have Any Pics?

MollyKay · #3 10-25-2009, 02:33 PM

Hello…Kay did use maple on the tops of basses…not often, but they did use it. If you can post pictures we can help you identify your bass. Pictures of the scroll, tuners, FF holes and neck can be most helpful. The most knowledgeable person on Kay Basses is Roger Stowers which you can contact him through his website www.kaybass.com

Come back with pictures and I’ll try to help you.

Jake deVilliers · #4 10-25-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim S

I just bought a beat up old Bass that has no identification marks or numbers on it. I took it to three luthiers who think it started it's life as a Kay, sometime in the 1940's, except for one thing. The front is maple plywood, and none of these guys have ever heard of a Kay with a Maple front. Did Kay ever make a Bass with a Maple plywood front? This thing has badly delaminated and suffered great abuse, but it sounds fine. It's the first Bass I've ever owned and I'm having a lot of fun learning to play.

There are plenty of Maple topped Kays out there. You can see a '39 on my opening page at www.thebassspa.com.

Kay, just like Gibson, used what was available to them during WWII. You can see guitars, mandolins and basses with maple in place of spruce, birch in place of maple and mahogany in place of spruce.

Spruce was used in aircraft construction and as such was considered as 'war materiel' and strictly rationed. Brass and steel were also restricted, so we see plastic tuner buttons in place of nickel-plated brass, no tuner shaft bushings in Martin and Gibson peg heads and in Martin guitars, a return to ebony neck reinforcement in place of the steel t-bar.

Its cool you found a bass you like!

What is the serial number of your Kay?

Jim S · #5 10-26-2009, 08:57 AM

Thanks so much for all your help. From the live basses I've seen and the pictures I've seen, I'm satisfied that mine started it's life as a Kay (with a maple front) sometime in the late 30's or the 1940's. Since I can't find any identification, I can't call it a Kay. I guess I'll call it an "undocumented Kay". I'll try to get some pictures posted in the next day or two.

Thanks again Jim S

PaulKing · #6 10-28-2009, 05:22 AM

Pictures?

Jake... that's some serious Kay porn on your site.

Jake deVilliers · #7 10-29-2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulKing

Pictures?

Jake... that's some serious Kay porn on your site.

Thanks Paul!

You've motivated me to upload some of the thousands of Kay images I have clogging my hard drive - there's much more to come...

Jake deVilliers · #8 10-29-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim S

Thanks so much for all your help. From the live basses I've seen and the pictures I've seen, I'm satisfied that mine started it's life as a Kay (with a maple front) sometime in the late 30's or the 1940's. Since I can't find any identification, I can't call it a Kay. I guess I'll call it an "undocumented Kay". I'll try to get some pictures posted in the next day or two.

Thanks again Jim S

I've seen the pix and that's definitely a Kay!

MollyKay · #9 10-30-2009, 10:01 AM

I agree with Jake definitely an early Kay.

If you investigate a bit further you will find a serial number inside the bass. Lay the bass flat on it back in a darken room. Take a flash light and shine in the F hole on the E side. Directly opposite the F hole on the back plate of the bass should be a serial number. If it is a really early Kay the serial number will be pencil or pen, if it is a later Kay (1942 or later) it will be a machine stamped number and very visible. If the bass has a lot of dust on the inside take a long handle paint brush through the F hole and swish away the dust on the back. Every Kay I have had or seen, has a serial number, some of the numbers are very light pencil and only 1/8” high…so you really need to look.

Good luck and hopefully you can cross reference your serial number at the Kay website and get what year your bass was manufactured. A wild ass guess would be a low serial number from 1937-1940 as the Kluson tuners have the five art deco lines. Only the oldest Kay’s have these tuners. After 1942 I have see no examples of this tuner style (a pre-war/post-war difference)

Good luck

Jim S · #10 11-04-2009, 12:11 PM

Thanks for your help. I'm a new bass player and am fascinated by this history. Also, does the maple front help date the bass, and how did World War?

affect the materials used in the kays manifactured during the war?

MollyKay · #11 11-04-2009, 08:40 PM

Hi Jim…I think if you look for the serial number and visit the Kay website many of your questions should be answered.

The maple tops were not exclusive to war time. I own a 1953 Kay that has a flamed maple top…so there are no absolute rules when it comes to any vintage bass manufacturer. There a few basses that will break the rules. As a curious vintage bass hobbyist I am still amazed and surprised but what I find when studying basses and their history. The family history from original owners is the coolest part of the research. Enjoy your new/old Kay bass.

PaulKing · #12 11-05-2009, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Thanks Paul!

You've motivated me to upload some of the thousands of Kay images I have clogging my hard drive - there's much more to come...

I'm off for a peek. Damn you, I'm supposed to be working.

PS Jake - thanks to one of your pictures, and your advice to Rene Ruhland in Holland, I'll be getting a lovely new Kay decal for the tailpiece on my 38 Kay (identical to Rene's). Same guy making it as make Rene's.

(I just have to figure a way to fix it so it doesn't destroy the remnant of original decal that's on there. It's such a tiny fragment it's almost not worth having, but equally I feel I should preserve it. Maybe a layer of non-adhesive film over the top so the new decal doesn't stick to the old one.)

davidprice · #13 11-05-2009, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulKing

PS Jake - thanks to one of your pictures, and your advice to Rene Ruhland in Holland, I'll be getting a lovely new Kay decal for the tailpiece on my 38 Kay (identical to Rene's). Same guy making it as make Rene's.

Will King Mortone decals be far behind....

PaulKing · #14 11-05-2009, 10:31 AM

Haha... I thought about it, asked the guy, but he needs a really good image to make the decal from.

I was thinking the Mortone is supposed to have purfling loop below the button and a simple KING stamped in the loop (rather than the fancy transfer on post-war basses)

Mine has nothing at all, no purfling even, so I thought about getting a transfer made to look like the KING stamp.

But now I've looked at a load of pictures of pre-war Kings, including the ones on their brochures at hnwhite.com, I'm left thinking perhaps there was no purfling or stamp on them.

So maybe I won't bother after all.

Anyway, I might have bigger things to worry about if it arrives in pieces ... just a few days to wait.